PRO

  • PRO

    The greenhouse effect was discovered by a French...

    Reserved for FollowerofChrist: Climate change is real and a massive threat to humanity.

    This is extremely confusing. You start off by saying that Maurice Strong is a criminal. He's not. Then you go on to rant about how climate change is an immoral commie agenda. I assume this is who you re talking about when you say he "created" climate change. He didn't. The greenhouse effect was discovered by a French physicist named Joseph Fourier in 1824. the first correlation beteen CO2 and temperature was discovered in 1900, by a Swede named Knut Angstrom. Mauna Loa began working in 1958. The first concern about climate change came in 1965, when the President was warned about climate change by a council of scientists. So tell me, how did Maurice start ALL of climate change? 2. This is a blog, and the IPCC is much more credible source. 3. (a) That's not how climate or averages work. They average thousands of sites across the globe, and they all indicate warming. (b) Oceans are indeed rising. YOu have no clue how continental drift works either, do you? COntinental drift doesn't happen at that rate, "dummy". Here's a source: https://www.climate.gov... 4. It is not trivial, but it is appeal to authority fallacy. 5. Please read the sources I've provided. They'll help. Hockey stick was not broken, and many replications have shown the same result. https://www.skepticalscience.com... there it is My opponent has repeatedly used incorrect information, fallacious reasoning, faulty logic, ad hominems, and has his whole argument structured around proof by repetition. Therefore, i strongly urge a vote to the pro(affirmative).

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Reserved-for-FollowerofChrist-Climate-change-is-real-and-a-massive-threat-to-humanity./1/
  • PRO

    Now for my reliance on NASA for my source, well I used it...

    Climate Change is man caused

    Thank you. I do not think it is only human-caused that title is put there, because I wouldn't want to put such titles as, "Climate change is sorta man caused". What I am arguing is humans do have a fairly large affect on the rate it is going at. Now for my reliance on NASA for my source, well I used it specifically because it is more well known than than the other sources I found and if you want them then tell if so in your statement and I will happily send you some of them. A scholarly article written by Thomas R. Karl (a climatologist that is the director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration"s National Climatic Data Center.) states, "The main source of global climate change is human-induced changes in atmospheric composition." Now another source I used which granted is from the EPA (but I didn't want to use NASA for my only source) states that the temperature is rose at 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit last century, however it also states small changes in the average temperature of the planet can translate to large and potentially dangerous shifts in climate and weather. Also 2014 was the hottest year on record according to multiple sources (listed bellow) and the 21st century is officially up to date the hottest century. I wish my opponent luck Sources Karl, T. R. "Modern Global Climate Change." Science 15.1 (2003): 1719-723. Print. "Basics." EPA. Environmental Protection Agency, 15 Apr. 2013. Web. 4 Feb. 2015. <http://www.epa.gov...; Hottest Year/century on record sources: "21st Century 'hottest' on Record as Global Warming Continues - UN." UN News Center. UN, 2 Feb. 2015. Web. 4 Feb. 2015. <http://www.un.org...;. "2014 Was Officially the Hottest Year on Record." Time. Time. Web. 4 Feb. 2015. <http://time.com...;. "2014 Officially Hottest Year on Record." Scientific American Global RSS. Web. 4 Feb. 2015. <http://www.scientificamerican.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-Change-is-man-caused/1/
  • PRO

    Climate change is happening. ... Here are some good...

    Climate Change is happening

    Climate change is happening. Here are some good sources to back it up. http://en.wikipedia.org... http://climate.nasa.gov... http://www.skeptic.com... https://www.ted.com... http://environment.nationalgeographic.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-Change-is-happening/1/
  • PRO

    They just assumed that the issue was important or urgent....

    Climate change is a fraud

    My opponent has used the same authoritarian approach used by climate scientists. He assumes because something has become accepted that it can't be later disputed. Quote - I still can't tell if you are claiming that the climate is not changing at all or if you believe it is changing but for natural reasons rather than anthropogenic. Reply - My opening statement is "The science of human caused climate change is faulty" Thus, You have twice doubted what this debate is about when I have clearly stated that it is about human caused climate change and not about natural changes. Thus, My opponent is being totally obnoxious and difficult to deal with and is not acting in a civil manner as required by debating rules. If you are voting please deduct points for this annoying repetition and harassment. Quote - The 97% number may not be exactly on-the-nose, But it is around that. Reply - My opponent has failed to acknowledge the deceptive tactics used by the surveys which ask loaded questions and which assume many false assumptions hidden within the questions. For example - None of the questions asked any of the scientists if they thought that climate change was an urgent or important issue. They just assumed that the issue was important or urgent. Thus, Therein lies the deception of not specifying if the problem was worthy of worrying about. Note - It was not even considered or discussed in any of the questions. Note - Only 64 % of qualified meteorologists agreed with the survey in it's corrupted format. Thus, 36 % of climatologists must have disagreed. Note - Of 3, 146 scientists that were surveyed only 77 of these surveys were used in the results. Thus, 77 experts divided by 75 agreements equals 97%. Yes, Folks that's how they got the the magical 97% - Truly amazing or what! Thus, We can plainly see that mathematical manipulation is a specialty of the so called 'climate scientists'. Quote - The mass of humans V's. The mass of Earth does not mean we cannot effect the Earth. Reply - My opponent didn't address the mathematical absurdity of the mass ratio difference between the Earth and human mass. It is the equivalent of 3 grains of sand (humans) on a 100 mile beach (Earth). Thus, It doesn't matter how much heat that those 3 grains of sand can produce they are never going to effect the temperature of a 100 mile beach of sand. Quote - Atmospheric CO2 has no true saturation point Reply - Again, More lies and deceptions. After the 80 parts / million point is reached any further gains are so small they are not worth any consideration. Note - The decline in effect or infra red reflection becomes exponentially less. Quote - The corruption of a single public figure does not negate the science Reply - Maurice Strong is just the tip of the corruption iceberg. All climate scientists are corrupt liars and deceivers. Quote - Tree rings are not the only proxy used to estimate historic and prehistoric climate trends- Reply - Sorry, I forgot to mention that inverting graphs is the second most common method. Note - Tree rings growth suggests water availability and are independent of temperature. This has been proven with many recent tests. Study - Insensitivity of tree-ring growth to temperature and precipitation. PLOS ONE

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-change-is-a-fraud/1/
  • PRO

    If we agree that humans are a naturally occurring product...

    Human-Caused Climate Change is Impossible

    A belief in human-caused Climate Change requires one to assert that humans are foreign entities from outside the Universe, Or are created and implanted into the Universe through Intelligent Design/God. If we agree that humans are a naturally occurring product of the Earth, It means the Earth is causing Climate Change since the Earth is a prerequisite to humanity. If you argue that humans are the Cause of Climate Change, You have to hold the belief that humans are an unnatural, Foreign, And parasitic force in the Universe, Implanted at some point by external means. If we are a natural result of Earthly evolution, Our presence here (including our intelligence and ability to develop technology) is a result of that natural process, No different than those of plants and other animals.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Human-Caused-Climate-Change-is-Impossible/1/
  • PRO

    As for the Pope's contribution, this shows just how much...

    Manmade global climate change is real and a threat.

    Defending my arguments. First and foremost, my opponent has dropped the issue of the Inconvenient truth documentary. I made this argument in r1 and thus far has been uncontested. I have fulfilled my burden of proof with this documentary in round one. As for the Pope's contribution, this shows just how much climate change deniers are within the minority. Argument one, burning of fossil fuels increase Co2. I've shown that the EPA states that burning of fossil fuels increase the greenhouse gas of CO2. I was unable to figure out why CO2 levels dropped during the time interval of 1940-1950. Yet, I did show that by my opponent's same graph CO2 levels have risen dramatically. In 1850 with Co2 at 285.2 ppm and in the year 2011 391.15 ppm. This is a cherry picking fallacy, my opponent has chosen a time frame that best suits him/her despite the obvious overall trend of higher concentrations of CO2. "The two main byproducts of natural gas combustion are carbon dioxide and water vapor" [8] As you can see the combustion of natural gas causes carbon dioxide, Co2 emissions. 2. Despite common belief the last few years have not been the warmest on record... My opponent seems to miss the original claim he/she made. I have shown that the overall trend As for the Pope's contribution, this shows just how much climate change deniers are within the minority. Argument one, burning of fossil fuels increase Co2. I've shown that the EPA states that burning of fossil fuels increase the greenhouse gas of CO2. I was unable to figure out why CO2 levels dropped during the time interval of 1940-1950. Yet, I did show that by my opponent's same graph CO2 levels have risen dramatically. In 1850 with Co2 at 285.2 ppm and in the year 2011 391.15 ppm. This is a cherry picking fallacy, my opponent has chosen a time frame that best suits him/her despite the obvious overall trend of higher concentrations of CO2. "The two main byproducts of natural gas combustion are carbon dioxide and water vapor" [8] As you can see the combustion of natural gas causes carbon dioxide, Co2 emissions. 2. Despite common belief the last few years have not been the warmest on record... My opponent seems to miss the original claim he/she made. I have shown that the overall trend is upwards. El nino was particularly potent in the spike of the graph. 3. Ice in Antarctica The overall tend is hotter. Climate can be difficult to predict, just because not everything predicted came true at the correct time, doesn't destroy the overall premise is false. 4. CO2 and temperature are strongly correlated. The graph clearly indicates that Co2 and temperature show a strong positive relationship. Yes, there are a few anomalies but that doesn't discredit the theory. Conclusions My opponent relies almost exclusively on cherry picking as a strategy. The overall trend is warmer and Co2 levels are increasing. Thanks for debating. Sources 8. http://science.howstuffworks.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Manmade-global-climate-change-is-real-and-a-threat./4/
  • PRO

    Writing in the journal Science, researchers concluded...

    Manmade global climate change is real and a threat.

    "Now on to your claim of Co2 levels. Now, the term carbon emissions is wrong, as it is not just carbon, but carbon dioxide. And every single form of fossil fuel is made of it, and all of that Co2 was once in our atmosphere. And for most of our planets existence, Co2 levels were far higher than they are today." Yatesuni What are you talking about? Co2 levels are higher than expected. You provide no outside links on this subject. " The last time there was this much carbon dioxide (CO2) in the Earth's atmosphere, modern humans didn't exist. Megatoothed sharks prowled the oceans, the world's seas were up to 100 feet higher than they are today, and the global average surface temperature was up to 11°F warmer than it is now. As we near the record for the highest CO2 concentration in human history — 400 parts per million — climate scientists worry about where we were then, and where we're rapidly headed now." [2] As you can see we are about to break the record for highest CO2 concentrations in human history 400 parts per million. All signs indicates the concentration will get higher and higher. Your claim about plants growing faster is also flawed. "But an unprecedented three-year experiment conducted at Stanford University is raising questions about that long-held assumption. Writing in the journal Science, researchers concluded that elevated atmospheric CO2 actually reduces plant growth when combined with other likely consequences of climate change -- namely, higher temperatures, increased precipitation or increased nitrogen deposits in the soil. " [3] You dispute mainstream science and popular opinion with weak arguments. Meanwhile human population is still above 7 billion. There is no sign of electric cars becoming main stream, people still eat factory farmed beef, and so forth. Thank you for the debate. Sources 2. http://www.climatecentral.org... 3. http://news.stanford.edu...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Manmade-global-climate-change-is-real-and-a-threat./1/
  • PRO

    Given the excellent record of oil companies in seeking...

    Climate change

    Final round. No new arguments and no new proof. In this round we will try to conclude and to balance the arguments presented. The debate crystallized around 2 central issues: credibility/significance of authority and interpretation of available data. With regard to the first point it became clear that the debate shifted from the credibility of scientists supporting human induced GW to the credibility of scientists and groups negating GW. This was only natural since there is more to attack and defend on the side of people negating human induced GW. Con managed to show that there was suspicion about interference in science on the side of IPCC (and IPCC only). I proved that not only all the proof presented by Con is financed by oil industry (Exxon is only one example, it didn't have to pay for all the research negating GW), but also that oil industry edited a science report which was wrote by independent scientists. Con made no reference to this Machiavellian strategy in his speech. Con also conceded that GW scientists have no secret agenda. My proof showed that people that negate GW have a vested interest in the outcome of this debate. Given the excellent record of oil companies in seeking the truth and helping their communities the reader can judge for himself/herself if the science provided by their scientists reflects the truth. In the end it is more probable that independent scientists are right and scientists financed by good willing oil companies are biased. It is hard to convince somebody of the truth if he is paid to ignore it. In the second part of the debate the reader can surely see that Con is very good at constantly changing his strategy to respond to my arguments. First he ignores the Venus example (round 1), then he does some calculations that I show to prove the Co2 sensitivity of climate (round 2&3), then he says that Venus is not actually relevant even if he agreed to use it as a case study (round 4). As his argument and his source don't explain why Venus is not appropriate for the debate, it should be taken into consideration when evaluating the outcome of this debate. I Venus is taken into consideration and correlated with the data provided by Con in the 2nd and 3rd round and the graph I have provided for illustrative purposes, then it shows that initial increases can lead to significant effects in warming the climate. This proves the topic I am advocating for. The proof showing an increase of mean temperatures and the argument regarding the balance of input and output were never clearly attacked by Con. Instead Con pointed out different causes that drive climate. When it was clear that it was not enough to prove alternate causes Con tried to redefine the "significant" word so that I would have to prove that Co2 drives climate change. As this is a straw man strategy I did not engage in this discussion. Instead I proved a significant effect. Also Con used a double standard with regard to the issue presented. The Co2 Theory must exactly predict everything while alternate causes don't have to. If we apply the same principle on Con causes they don't stand careful analysis. With regard to the quote from a "BBC documentary" [sic] I refrain from listing all the false data provided by the movie ("The Great Global Warming Swindle") as this would be new proof. I will only point out something that already appeared in the debate and on which both me and Con agree. The movie states that there is no financing of denial (sic!) of human induced GW. This is only one among numerous errors of the movie. It is good that I didn't have to defend An Inconvenient Truth. In the end I won credibility and I won Venus. The reader can either vote for Pro or wait to see if the Co2 theory is wrong. http://xkcd.com... I thank Con for an educated debate and the reader for his patience in reading this lengthy discussion.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-change/1/
  • PRO

    If I murdered you and your whole family - you'd have to...

    Human-Caused Climate Change is Impossible

    "No, Humans can cause climate change because we introduce new variables into the climate. " New variables? New from what? If we are products of the Earth, And have evolved through natural Earthly means, We are not "introducing new variables". . . We are expressing the evolution of the variables already set forth by the Earth. Claiming that we are "introducing new variables" implies, Again, That we are foreign to the variables that existed before our presence. "If I murdered you and your whole family - you'd have to say the Earth did it unless I'm somehow a foreign entity of the Earth and universe itself? ' Here's where the debate shifts to a "Pre-Determinism vs Free Will" debate. I actually believe we ARE "foreign entities" to the Universe, And we are placed here with the ability to express Free Will. This is the point at which climatologists will butt heads with theists. One must conclude that if Humans are causing Climate Change in a catastrophic way which endangers our presence on Earth and the Earth's health in the Universe, We MUST be foreign entities in the Universe, Since without our ability to consciously comprehend, Study, And adjust to life conditions (the warming of the Earth, For example) we must be separate and apart from the subjects we are studying. So, While the debate topic states "Human Caused Climate Change is Impossible", It's accurate in the sense that it's impossible only if we are evolved entities which developed from the Earth. It IS possible that humans are causing climate change, ONLY if we are separate and foreign to the Universe, And implanted into it through an Intelligent Designer/ God.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Human-Caused-Climate-Change-is-Impossible/1/
  • PRO

    Claim: Donald claims climate change is a hoax. ... (Jun...

    Donald Trump thinks climate change is a hoax.

    Claim: Donald claims climate change is a hoax. Warrant: "Climate Change: It is a hoax." [0] "Climate change is a hoax. (Jun 2015) " [1] Impact: The evidence clearly shows Trump thinks climate change is a hoax. 0. http://www.pbs.org... 1. http://www.ontheissues.org...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Donald-Trump-thinks-climate-change-is-a-hoax./1/

CON

  • CON

    I say it's unlikely CO2 dominates, but no one really...

    Anthropogenic Climate Change Exists

    Correlation plus a theory is not proof CO2 dominates climate My opponent noted temperature generally rising since 1900 and CO2 rising since 1900, and claims that because CO2 is a greenhouse gas, it must be responsible for the rise. The error in that logic is that we do not know how much of the rise is due to CO2 and how much is due to other factors affecting climate. We could plot increasing consumption of charcoal in backyard barbecues, noted that burning charcoal heats the atmosphere, and then concluded that barbecuing causes global warming. The barbecue theory is defeated by showing that there isn't enough heat generated by the volume of charcoal consumed to have a significant warming effect. Similarly, Pro offers no analysis that shows CO2 to be even a significant cause. Pro has the burden to prove not only that CO2 dominated climate in the last century, but that it will dominate the next century despite all unknown factors affecting climate. Here is a reconstruction of CO2 and climate over the past 650 million years. [1. http://www.geocraft.com...] http://www.debate.org... Over geological time, clearly climate has been dominated by factors other than CO2. On the geological time scale, we are currently in an unusual period of low temperatures and low CO2. It a very complicated picture, proving that climate is far more than just CO2. Pro shows the CO2 data for the past 650,000 years.Temperature follows the same pattern, only CO2 follows temperature. The graphs are here [2. http://www.geocraft.com...] If the graphs are time aligned, the result is not that CO2 causes warming. Quite the opposite, CO2 rises about 800 years after temperature rises. Warming causes CO2 because warmer oceans cannot dissolve as much CO2. In 2013 the prestigious journal Nature published an up to date scientific reconstruction of climate for the past 2050 years. [3. http://www.nature.com...] It shows that over the period climate varied by about as much as the present warming, with both the Roman Period and the Medieval Warm Period warmer. It remains possible that CO2 is contributing significantly to current warming, but the natural variations are so large that CO2 might be inconsequential. Current climate science has no explanation for the major climate variations of the past 2000 years. That's why the discredited global warming hockey stick attempted to prove there were no past variations. Pro has the burden to prove CO2 dominates. I say it's unlikely CO2 dominates, but no one really knows. http://www.debate.org... Total sea ice is at record levels and CO2 can't explain why Pro argues that arctic ice is melting, that proves CO2 is the cause. Historically, Arctic ice melts when Antarctic ice increases in a cycle of 40 to 60 years called the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO). The PDO pattern fits the cooling period from the 40s to the 70s that CO2 cannot explain. [4. http://www.drroyspencer.com...] The Arctic was last clear around 1940. Global warming alarmist scientists warned that this time the Antarctic was melting as well, and they made the confident prediction in 2010 was that the Antarctic would be ice free by 2013. What actually happened is that the Antarctic reached record high levels of ice: “The Antarctic surge is so big that overall, although Arctic ice has decreased, the frozen area around both poles is one million square kilometres more than the long-term average.” [5. http://www.dailymail.co.uk...] If CO2 warming dominates climate, it cannot be that it is overwhelmed by other factors like the PDO. But it is. CO2 theory cannot explain the pause in warming To accurately predict future climate, computer models must be proved to be reliable. We know the models did not predict ice formation in the Antarctic nor pre-1900 climate variations. In addition, global warming has essentially ceased since 1997, [6. http://wattsupwiththat.com...] so a check on the accuracy of climate models is how well this pause is predicted. Sscientists predicting CO2 crisis use many variations of computer models. The collections are called CMIP3 and CMIP5, with CMIP5 the very latest. ... Climate models cannot simulate past surface temperatures, precipitation or sea ice area. Those are basic components of Earth’s climate. … The concern about the latest slowdown in warming was addressed by a recent scientific study by Von Storch, et al. (2013) “ Can Climate Models Explain the Recent Stagnation in Global Warming? ” The one-word answer to the title question of their paper is, “No”. They stated: However, for the 15-year trend interval corresponding to the latest observation period 1998-2012, only 2% of the 62 CMIP5 and less than 1% of the 189 CMIP3 trend computations are as low as or lower than the observed trend. Applying the standard 5% statistical critical value, we conclude that the model projections are inconsistent with the recent observed global warming over the period 1998- 2012. [7. Tisdale, Bob (2013-09-23). Climate Models Fail (Kindle Locations 276-291)] The Von Storch paper is available free in draft format [8. http://www.mpimet.mpg.de...] There are a number of ocean oscillations in addition to the PDO. These are not accurately modelled in the computer simulations and likely account for the rapid warming before the current pause. The Medieval Warm Period and the following Little Ice Age correlate extremely well with sunspot activity, but no physical cause of the warming and cooling has been definitively linked to sunspots so there is nothing in the computer models representing the effects. It is not direct change in the solar radiation, because that varies too little to explain the large effect. Danish scientist Svensmark has proposed that changes in cosmic rays linked to variations in sunspots affect cloud cover by a cloud seeding mechanism, but CO2 scientists discount that, so nothing is in the computer models. [9. http://wattsupwiththat.com...] All of the climate change in the past century could be accounted for by less than a 3% change in cloud cover, but even with satellites cloud cover measurement is difficult. The cloud height is important as well as the density. We don't know future CO2 levels Everyone, crisis advocates and skeptics alike, agrees that whatever the CO2 sensitivity it is logarithmic. So if doubling CO2 produces a one degree rise, which is about the theoretical rise if there is nothing in the climate that magnifies the effect, then doubling it again would produce another degree of warming. An exponential rise in CO2 produces a linear rise in temperature. If we had a perfect model of CO2 effects on climate, we would still need to know how much CO2 is left to be produced and at what rate. Everyone agrees oil and coal are running out, but no one is sure how fast. But as supplies get scarce, prices rise and alternatives become economically viable. A technological breakthrough like a cheap, efficient battery would drop carbon consumption dramatically. It's another major unknown. A clarification of the resolution was agreed to in the debate comments so Pro must show that CO2 dominates climate in the past and future century. Pro has not made a convincing case that CO2 accounts for past climate change, nor that either computer models or carbon consumption assumptions are reliable enough to predict the future. He has the burden of proof.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Anthropogenic-Climate-Change-Exists/1/
  • CON

    It sounds like it was written by a control freak who...

    Reserved for FollowerofChrist: Climate change is real and a massive threat to humanity.

    The conditions of the debate are very confusing. It sounds like it was written by a control freak who can't tolerate freedom of speech and democratic processes. Never-the-less I am will to take on somebody who doesn't understand basic science. Yep!, You heard me right. Any person who believes in It sounds like it was written by a control freak who can't tolerate freedom of speech and democratic processes. Never-the-less I am will to take on somebody who doesn't understand basic science. Yep!, You heard me right. Any person who believes in climate change doesn't understand basic science and politics for that matter. Introducing Maurice Strong - The dirt bag climate change instigator. http://quadrant.org.au... https://steemit.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Reserved-for-FollowerofChrist-Climate-change-is-real-and-a-massive-threat-to-humanity./1/
  • CON

    The temperature then drops and rises again independent of...

    Manmade global climate change is real and a threat.

    My opponent accepts that his first argument is a correlation so there is no need to strengthen my argument there. My opponents second argument states, """When the Earth comes out of an ice age, the warming is not initiated by CO2 but by changes in the Earth's orbit. The warming causes the oceans to release CO2. The CO2 amplifies the warming and mixes through the atmosphere, spreading warming throughout the planet. So CO2 causes warming AND rising temperature causes CO2 rise. Overall, about 90% of the global warming occurs after the CO2 increase.""" To disprove this I will do it line by line. Line 1: When the Earth comes out of an ice age, the warming is not initiated by CO2 but by changes in the Earth's orbit This line is true but only in some cases. For example, the mini ice age, which we exited 1000 years ago, was not initiated by changes in the earths orbit. Line 2: This line is just wrong. The oceans do store Co2 but what is released when they warm is mostly water vapor, not Co2. This water vapor then causes more clouds which then cools the Earth. This is common knowledge among scientists because this is exactly how cosmic rays cause cooling. Line 3: Yes, rising temperature causes more Co2 to be released but by simply looking at ice core data we can see that this does not cause an infinite rise in temperature. The temperature then drops and rises again independent of the Co2 that was released from the previous rise. For an example, look at this graph: http://www.geocraft.com... My opponents next argument is just plain wrong. My opponent states, ""Even if we ignore long term trends and just look at the record-breakers, 2015, 2014, 2010, and 2005 were hotter than 1998. The myth of no warming since 1998 was based on the satellite record estimates of the temperature of the atmosphere. However, as discussed in the video below by Peter Sinclair, even that argument is no longer accurate. The satellites show warming since 1998 too." " To disprove this all you need to do is read the caption at the top of the graph below where it lists its source. http://4.bp.blogspot.com... As you can see, the graph was not based on temperature estimates but the "global mean temperature change..." I don't know where you got the idea that 2015, 2014, 2010, and 2005 were hotter than 1998 but from your sources it seems that this data is only true once you remove the El Nino. My question to you is why hasn't the Earth warmed since the El Nino. In the 20 years since the temperature maximum temperature doesn't increase at all. In addition to this, the El Nino just proves the fact that there are other influences in climate that influence temperature more then Co2 or enough to distort data. For my opponents next argument he states that my source is not credible. This is just not true. Just because the maker of the website is paid to research evidence against man made global warming does not immediately make all of his evidence untrue. My opponent does not provide any actual contrary evidence to debate this point but to satisfy their needs I will give a link to multiple graphs sourced from other websites showing the same thing. http://c3headlines.typepad.com... http://www.drroyspencer.com... http://i.dailymail.co.uk... http://www.cafeconlecherepublicans.com... My opponents next argument is not relevant to man made climate change. My opponents next argument states, "Not every prediction in the Inconvenient Truth came true. Nevertheless polar bears are struggling and many ice caps are melting. [5] As for the polar bears this is due to hunting restrictions and bans. " I will cede this point to my opponent as it is a result of warming and not relevant to man causing the warming. I should not have brought it up and while I still have arguments to dispute it do not wish to argue this view any longer. As for why the documentary was manipulated, I do not wish to argue this any more either for the same reasons listed above nevertheless I will provide a short article to explain my first argument. I know that the article does not provide much info on the subject but if you really want to understand the argument then you need to research it yourself. http://www.newsmax.com... Nextl, to strengthen my point of the debate, I will argue that Earth is not the only planet warming. The entire solar system seems to be going through a sort of "climate-change phase." Within the last 20 years scientists at NASA and around the world have realized that the planets we are looking at now are different than those in 1900s. This indicates that the entire solar system is in some sort of solar-system wide climate change. For example, the ice caps on Mars are shrinking (indicating warming) and the atmosphere is gaining clouds and ozone, Pluto is experiencing a growth of its mysterious dark spots and is experiencing a 300% increase in atmospheric pressure (indicating warming), Saturn is giving off large amount of x rays and there are new appearances of "hot spots" in its atmosphere (indicating warming), there have been polar shifts on Uranus and voyager 2 picked up large storm spots In its atmosphere that were not there 50 years ago (indicating warming), Mercury is growing a magnetic field, Jupiter"s "white ovals" are disappearing and melding together in its atmosphere (this is theorized to have been caused by an 18 degree Celsius warming and this is supported by the new large storm spots appearing on Jupiter for the first time), Venus has had a 2500% increase in green glow which symbolizes oxygen in the atmosphere, and Neptune is experiencing changes in light intensity. As you can see from the long paragraph I have provided above, the entire Solar System seems to be warming or experiencing some sort of weird climate change patterns. This indicates more then just a global event. To conclude my argument, I will provide a graph of Co2 and Temperature over the long term that should, on its own, disprove entirely the idea of man-made climate change. http://www.paulmacrae.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Manmade-global-climate-change-is-real-and-a-threat./8/
  • CON

    Assume for a second that the deniers are wrong. ......

    Jail climate change deniers.

    I reassert my strongest argument in r2. "Finally, and perhaps my strongest argument. Assume for a second that the deniers are wrong. Not much of an assumption. Jailing the deniers could backfire. Causing them to become martyrs per say. Holding back political Assume for a second that the deniers are wrong. Not much of an assumption. Jailing the deniers could backfire. Causing them to become martyrs per say. Holding back political change and giving the deniers a louder voice. Thanks for debating and being respectful. " stupidape Jailing the climate change deniers could backfire. Cause the deniers to become martyrs and more suspicion and doubt to be cast.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Jail-climate-change-deniers./1/
  • CON

    I think climate change is a bad thing because it is...

    What is your opinion on climate change

    I think climate change is a bad thing because it is warming the globe and it is destroying ice burges and is changing anamails habits like for example poler bears there homes are getting melted by the increasing temps and its bad because the poler bears are losing there homes. AND do you want to know why climate change is happening. Its because green house gases and fossil fuels and airshol fresheners. The bad cemaciles are going up and destroying this thing called the ozone layer. The ozone layer is like a layer around the earth pretecing us from the suns deadly rays and the stuff that goes into the air goes to the ozone layer and makes it weaker and that's why there is globe warming and climate change

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/What-is-your-opinion-on-climate-change/1/
  • CON

    While there is little doubt about the reality of climate...

    Acceleration Of Climate Change

    While there is little doubt about the reality of climate change, it is unknown how mankind will be able to adapt to it. New technology may create arable land in areas that otherwise couldn’t be farmed. Furthermore, it is possible that relocating people from areas that are flooded will become easier due to improvements in technology.

    • https://debatewise.org/2123-should-we-be-concerned-about-population-growth/
  • CON

    That said, You encounter the same problem as with plate...

    Climate change is a fraud

    Your point about surveys not asking if scientists considered the warming a problem is a fair one. However, You need not dig very deep to find examples of scientists who actively lobby for decreased greenhouse gas emissions to stop global warming and who describe it as a threat to the ecosystem. One example is a 2012 study by Paerl and Paul published in the journal Water Research found that climate change is likely to increase the frequency of cyanobacteria algal blooms in nutrient-rich waters; these blooms outcompete green algae and lead to low-oxygen levels in the water which kill fish and other aquatic life. Scientists also agree warming waters will dissolve more carbonic acid and lead to coral bleaching; this will destroy the Great Barrier Reef and other highly biodiverse marine ecosystems. If you're going to point to a lack of scientific consensus as evidence against climate change, Then the existing scientific consensus on plate tectonics should be evidence that it is true. If you believe all the world's scientists are wrong, Why are we even discussing what their position is? 2. My mention of nuclear weapons was not meant as an analogy; I was responding to your claim that humans cannot affect the Earth because their mass is so small. I gave an example which shows this is not the case. Given that over a million people have died of the coronavirus in less than a year, Which has never happened any of the other years humans have eaten the same thing, I don't see how you can claim diet is the true cause of viral disease. That said, You encounter the same problem as with plate tectonics; by ignoring the scientific consensus, You make this whole discussion a non-starter. The heat comes from the sun, But the greenhouse gases which trap the heat come from the burning of fossil fuels. Of course, If there were no sun, There would be no heat to trap, But that's a more extreme example than anything we see in the real world. 3. Water is the most potent greenhouse gas. Google "most potent greenhouse gas" to learn more. This means the more the globe warms, The more vapor enters the air, And the faster the warming goes. I'm glad to see you at least agreed with 4 (or didn't see it as objectionable enough to post a response to). 5. The first sentence of that quote you posted from NOAA clearly states that tree rings are proxies for temperature as well as precipitation. The two are closely related after all. How often do you have an unseasonable drought without it being hot? I certainly can't think of any times. Peer review as a process is designed to discourage fraud. In science, Academic integrity is everything. You can't lie about your findings or funding at all without destroying your reputation. It's a zero-tolerance system; one strike, You're out. Peer review weeds out corrupt scientists who cannot be trusted to do science honestly and bars them from further publication in reputable journals. Since science has the goal of improving human understanding of the universe, There is absolutely no reason for a scientist to invert their graphs or fudge their data without ulterior motives. What motives could possibly exist for faking climate change? The renewable sector is nowhere near as profitable as the fossil fuel sector; the latter would be a much better candidate for making money off of faulty data than the former, As we have seen. I look forward to this last round. If you have any final arguments you would like to hit me with, I will do my best to respond in my closing statement. Best of luck!

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-change-is-a-fraud/1/
  • CON

    And anyway, if you really do want to help countries in...

    Manmade global climate change is real and a threat.

    Your lack of rebuttals makes me think you're stumped. You only responded to one thing I said because you think it is the only important thing I said, and didn't even bother to bring up the evidence I used to support it. You simply said that Co2 levels are higher then we expected. Which is not what I said was expected, what I said is that a warming trend is expected, as we have recently entered an inter galacial period as part of the paleostine ice age. You see, the climate is constantly changing, and my point was that the Co2 theory is becoming more and more flawed. Now you bring up hurricanes, again, this is all part of the warming trend. And anyway, if you really do want to help countries in danger because of hurricanes, then you are on the wrong path. When a developed country gets hit by a hurricane, the effects are far less devastating than when a hurricane or typhoon hits a less developed country. Mainly because of low quality shelter. This causes that country's economy to crash. So if you are really concerned about hurricane damage, then get of the problem of Mainly because of low quality shelter. This causes that country's economy to crash. So if you are really concerned about hurricane damage, then get of the problem of climate change, and focus on bringing those countries out of poverty. Now on to your claim of Co2 levels. Now, the term carbon emissions is wrong, as it is not just carbon, but carbon dioxide. And every single form of fossil fuel is made of it, and all of that Co2 was once in our atmosphere. And for most of our planets existence, Co2 levels were far higher than they are today. Now, Co2 levels cannot be used to blame your stated problems on. For instance, low plant growth, if anything, can be blamed on low Co2 levels, as the optimal level for plant growth is 4x higher then ours today. And our high levels of Co2, as noted by satellite imagery, are actually making the Earth greener in terms of plant growth, as plants and forests begin to regrow at noticeably fast rates. Now, I have made legitimate claims and backed them up accordingly, and I would appreciate it if you acknowledge these claims, instead of cherry picking for one group of words to attack.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Manmade-global-climate-change-is-real-and-a-threat./1/
  • CON

    Fact 5: Sun spots and ocean currents correlated stronger...

    Manmade global climate change is real and a threat.

    My opponent does not counter-argue even one of the points I made in my previous arguments/in the comment section. Instead he accuses of of making the argument grow in size to confuse people. Not only is this not true, but it points out how little my opponent understands my argument and this subject. If he had simply read the counter arguments I provided, you can see clearly that I do not try to distract from the topic at hand. Seeing as my opponent made no further arguments and did not make any comments about how I disproved all of his (relating to man causing the warming) claims, I am only left with the option to strengthen my own argument. Fact 1: Co2 is a weak greenhouse gas. According to atomic absorption spectroscopy, a method in science used to measure the amount of the electromagnetic spectrum a molecule can store/release, Co2 can only store 7% of the heat that passes through it in the 15 micrometer range. This is minuscule, especially when compared to water vapor which can store 850% more heat then Co2 can. Fact 2: There is not much Co2 in the atmosphere compared to the rest of the earths history and history tells us there is little to no correlation of temperature to Co2 over long periods of time. It is as simple as looking at this graph: http://www.paulmacrae.com... Fact 3: Almost every single planet in the solar system is exhibiting some sort of characteristic attributed to warming. If every planet is warming simultaneously, then why is Earth warming not natural. (For more info check the comment section where there was a mini debate on the subject or my previous debate where I explained the attributes each planet it expressing) Fact 3: There has been no significant warming in the last 20 years. We have already discussed this topic and my opponent brought up a good argument against it but I disproved it in my last argument (and the comment section). (Keep in mind that in the last 20 years 25% of all Co2 released by man has been released during that period) Fact 4: The Earth has been warming for the last 20,000 years and the recent uptick started in the 1700's, before the industrial revolution. https://conscioustourism.files.wordpress.com... Fact 5: Sun spots and ocean currents correlated stronger with temperature then Co2 for the majority of the 1900s. Yes, sun spot numbers decreased towards the end of the 1900s but that is also right before temperatures flat lined. Sun Spots Graph: (According to Joe Bastardi the correlation (not on this exact graph) )is .57 1900-2004) http://www.soest.hawaii.edu... Ocean Current Graph: (According to Joe Bastardi the correlation here is .85 1900s-2007) http://i0.wp.com... Co2 Graph: (According to Joe Bastardi the correlation (not on this exact graph) is .47 1895-2007) http://zfacts.com... Fact 6: Cosmic rays prove that greenhouse gasses do not have a big impact on the atmosphere. Cosmic rays effect temperature by increasing evaporation, and, in turn, causing more cloud cover which reflects the suns heat off the earth. This disproves man-made climate change because the water vapor doesn"t cause the earth to warm more than the clouds it forms causes the Earth to cool. This just proves the fact that other variables in the climate have way more of an effect on the overall temperature then most greenhouse gasses and the idea that Co2, which is weaker then water vapor, solely dictates climate is just plain wrong. Fact 7: Almost every single climate model prediction warming from Co2 was wrong (see earlier argument for graphs) Fact 8: There is no way to scientifically test, through a controlled experiment, whether Co2 causes enough warming to drive the atmosphere. You can test that the Co2 is a greenhouse gas, but you can't test that it is a strong enough greenhouse gas to impact global climate. This just proves that the idea that Co2 causes warming is not based in science. It is based off of faith in computer models or flawed logic. In conclusion, I have now proven, beyond any doubt, that Co2 cannot be the main climate driver. I have given historical evidence, explained the flaws in the logic presented through cosmic ray induced cooling, shown how Co2 driving climate can't be scientifically tested, explained how we are not the only planet experiencing warming and described how much stronger other climate drivers are then Co2 by presenting correlation strengths of each driver. My opponent has effectively given up the argument and accused me of distracting the readers from the problem at hand. As you can see, just by reading the 8 facts listed above, I have not distracted, I have not manipulated. I have provided clear, easy to understand, proof to why my opponent is wrong. I have disproven all of his arguments, whether in the comment section or in my arguments presented above and given countless examples of evidence to why my side of the argument is correct. Thank you for reading this long debate and I hope you are certain of the right choice when you vote. To my opponent: I will be very surprised if you are reading this because it seems you have been ignoring my arguments from the beginning. You are so biased towards your own opinion that I am surprised you even decided to read any of my arguments instead of saying, "oh, he didn't separate the lines into enough paragraphs!" and ignoring them. I have looked at your past debates and concluded that, while you have done a good job at defeating some people, Retroz and maybe Epidexipteryx have both gotten the better of you. Even in your past debates (including the ones you have won) you have not been able to prove anything you claim. You attack sources, you focus on grammar, but you don't focus on your argument. This is why you attacked the whatsupwiththat website without providing any actual evidence showing the data I presented from it was wrong. In fact, you even admitted it was right! This just proves that attacking sources doesn't get you anywhere with your argument. Just a side tip, if you are going to attack anyone else's sources in future arguments, skeptical science isn't a trustworthy website either. It is run by John Cook who is known for manipulating and masking real information as he did with the 97% consensus. Go to 3:02 in this video or watch the whole thing: Here is an article saying the same thing: http://www.forbes.com... Keep in mind that this renders almost every single one of your arguments useless so if this debate actually focused on how credible sources are, I would instantly win. I thank you for participating in this debate, it was very fun, and I hope that we can both part from this as friends (or people that know each other online and happened to do a debate together whichever you prefer)

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Manmade-global-climate-change-is-real-and-a-threat./8/
  • CON

    The same is true of other CO2 advocates, quoted by Voosen...

    Anthropogenic Climate Change Exists

    There has been no global warming for 17 years, despite a 54% increase in CO2 Pro now argues there is something wrong with NASA's Remote Sensing Satellite (RSS) data [6] because it does not measure temperature with a thermometer. No scientist, to my knowledge, has ever questioned the ability of RSS to measure temperature. Satellite measurements are far superior to the spotty coverage of weather stations subject to urban heat island effects. Satellites provide global coverage at much higher densities than attainable with in situ observations. In situ observations also suffer from non-uniform temporal coverage and undocumented changes in the instrumentation used that can lead to local biases and increased uncertainty. … Satellites can measure the temperature of the atmosphere by evaluating thermal emission from gases in the atmosphere. ... By choosing the different measurement frequencies, and thus different values of absorptivity, the emission from different layers of the atmosphere can be measured. RSS studies the measurements made by 3 series of satellite-borne microwave sounders in order to construct long-term, climate-quality atmospheric temperature datasets for use by the scientific community. [24. http://www.remss.com...] If temperature continued to climb in the past 17 years, we would expect advocates of the theory of CO2 dominated climate to trumpet the success of climate models. But those advocates recognize the fact that the models have failed, the Voosen article I cited makes it clear that CO2 advocates are struggling for an explanation of why the models have failed. I explained in detail why there is no inconsistency with having no temperature increase in 17 years and having the 2001-2010 decade averaging warmer than the 90s. Pro ignored my explanation and claimed that there is a conflict. Pro said I claimed that the temperature anomaly was reset for each decade. That's nonsense, I made no such claim, and if it were reset every decade then the temperature anomalies would be a string of zeros. The anomaly is an arbitrary offset to prevent graphs from having to be scaled with the average global temperature of around 59 degrees F or 287 degrees Kelvin. Pro's graph shows global warming to have stopped since 2000. In additional to providing the actual data and the opinions of scientists who advocate CO2-dominated climate, I provided the work of Von Storch and separately of Mauritsen who showed that CO2 models could not explain the pause. [7] Pro claims I misrepresented Von Storch because in 2006 Von Storch said he believed CO2 dominates climate, but in 2012 Von Storch admitted the CO2 models failed. I quoted Von Storch as saying “we find that the continued stagnation in global warming, from 1998 to 2012, is inconsistent with model predictions, even at the 2% confidence level.” [17] That's not a misrepresentation. Scientists become convinced by unrelenting contrary data. The same is true of other CO2 advocates, quoted by Voosen [20], who finally have given up trying to defend the models. I cited Tinsdale's book [7] for it's extensive comparisons showing the CO2 models fail. Pro argues that I needed to have shown and argued every piece of evidence in the book. No, all I needed to do was to make a claim and cite the evidence. To refute Tinsdale, Pro might have cited some contrary compendium showing all the models were on target, but there is no such evidence to be cited. Some of the CO2 advocates claim the lack of global warming is due to something other than cosmic ray clouds seeding. Hansen supposes it might be reflective soot from coal burning in China. For the present debate, it suffices to say that CO2 is not dominating climate, and so until the science is resolved future predictions cannot be made reliability under the assumption that CO2 dominates. Cosmic ray effects, or something else associated with sunspots, are clearly the most likely factor because the sunspot trend since the early 1800s has been generally in favor of warming, but sunspots activity also tracks the Medieval Warm Period, the Little Ice Age, the global warming pause from the 40s through the 70s, the 70s sharp cooling, and the current 17 year lack of global warming. All this was shown clearly in the data presented in the debate. Current models do not include all the natural forcings Pro's graphs of temperature with and without CO2 are purely math model predictions. He says that they include sunspot and ocean oscillation effects, but they unquestionably do not. That's apparent because the real temperatures post 2000 did not rise as the graphs show, and also because the projections go out into the future. Voosen [20] specifically referenced these elements missing from the models. The “natural forcings” in the model projections are defective because they do not include the cosmic ray and magnetic effects of sunspots, rather only the inconsequential changes in irradiance. Pro began by arguing that that we should not look at temperatures before 1900, because that's when anthropogenic global warming began. However, the physics of climate do not change, and temperature reconstructions on scales of millions of years, hundreds of thousands of years, and the past 2000 years show that CO2 has never dominated climate, no matter what the source of CO2. CO2 levels have been many times current levels. In the past, CO2 increase was a product of warming, not a cause. CO2 may increase warming slightly, but it's never prevented natural forcings from driving temperatures down. To show that CO2 now dominates climate, advocates must show that no other natural factors are significant, but current lack of warming shows that the models are dead wrong. In this round Pro introduced the argument that CO2-induced warming began in the 1800s. But then what caused the preceding Medieval Warm Period and Little Age? It's far more likely that whatever caused those major climate changes ended, producing the subsequent warming. Those major climate events were tightly correlated with sunspot activity. To argue it was CO2, a switch must have been flipped around 1825 causing sunspots to no longer have an effect and CO2 to start dominating. Polar sea ice has increased to a current high, contrary to CO2 theory Pro began by claiming that the decrease in Arctic Ice proved that CO2 causes global warming. That claim evaporated in the light of evidence that Arctic ice has been disappearing and reappearing for centuries with the cycle of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, which is not in the CO2 climate models. Also, CO2 warming does not explain why Antarctic ice has increased so much so that total ice has had a net increase. Pro shifted to arguing that total accumulated ice on earth has been decreasing since the end of the Little Age, but that is better explained by sunspot activity than CO2. No one claims the Little Age was due to a sudden CO2 shortage. Future CO2 levels are unpredictable. Pro offered only unsupported assertions to counter cited expert opinion that we are rapidly running out of fossil fuels, and technology will provide substitutes. The sun, not CO2, dominates climate We are seeing the real world destroy the theory of CO2 dominating climate. The CO2 math models cannot be tuned to explain how a 54% increase in CO2 has failed to produce and increase in global temperatures. For a while, the notion was that the failure was some transient glitch that would quickly disappear. After 17 years, it's clear that there is a fundamental lack of understanding reflected in climate models. CO2 theorists have been fervent in clinging to their theory, but they are nonetheless still scientists and ultimately obliged to yield their theory to the contrary data. I'm sure that science will ultimately succeed in getting climate models that match reality, and that the models will include some effect of CO2. But it should not be a surprise that the sun dominates climate, even though we are still figuring out exactly how.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Anthropogenic-Climate-Change-Exists/1/