• CON

    Inhomogeneities affecting station records can most...

    Man-Made Global Warming Isn't Real

    I need to urge Pro to read the sources he/she is citing a bit more carefully before just throwing them into a debate. Beyond the fact that I thoroughly disproved his/her contention that their facts are all from Tesla whose stance is one suggesting "Man-Made Global Warming Isn't Real", they have actually cited sources that say the exact opposite of what they are trying to prove. The other sources, as I describe below, are simply not valid scientific sources in any sense of the term. Especially given that BoP is on Pro, he/she should have to combat my claims with counterclaims from equally, if not superior sources. Rather, they have utilized highly-contested articles from non-scientific sources, some of which are explicitly labeled "opinions" rather than fact. For example, Pro's first source about "WWII/Greenhouse Gasses" is actually titled: Climate myths: The cooling after 1940 shows CO2 does not cause warming. Emphasis on myths. The article is all about the fact that this argument is in no way true. It specifically states that, "The sudden drop in temperatures in 1945 now appears to be an artifact of a switch from using mainly US ships to collect sea surface temperature data to using mainly UK ships. The two fleets used a different method. The temperature record is currently being updated to reflect this bias." This shows that, not only does Pro's claim have no standing because the statistic is actually a result of changing methodology, but they are actually attempting to cite new sources (since their original ones were copied and pasted from a Tesla forum) which either contradict previous arguments or are based on non-scientific, opinion-based, vastly-refuted claims. The source they cite for the "0.7 - 0.9"C increase in the average global temperature" is a 13-page long, fairly technical document which I actually took the time to read. The only time the numbers 0.7 and 0.9 even occur is in a section titled, "2. The importance of data quality and consistency when studying extremes." This section states, among other things, "Nicholls (1996) observed that a major problem undermining our ability to determine whether extreme weather and climate events were changing was that it is more difficult to maintain the long-term homogeneity of observations required to observe changes in extremes, compared to monitoring changes in means of variables. Inhomogeneities affecting station records can most commonly be introduced through site moves, changes in instrumentation, changes in local site conditions (through urbanization for example), or changes in observing practices." This section is about bringing into question the integrity of the very data Pro is attempting to cite. Furthermore, this section actually discusses the "Monthly minimum value of daily min temperature" and in no way speaks to the "average global temperature" as suggested by Pro. Regarding Pro's discussion of the myth of receding glaciers, I should point out first that the article is from 6 years ago, second that it is from the Daily Mail as opposed to the actual scientific sources I provided, and third, only covers the change over one year. Even though the artic sea ice may have increased over this one year, it was still at far lower than average levels. Also, the IPCC did not hold the crisis meeting that was alleged. That is a complete fabrication. The IPCC actually directly came out to state how terrible of a source of information this specific article was: "The UN’s climate science body has rejected claims in the Mail on Sunday newspaper that it plans to hold a crisis meeting to discuss the impending release of its latest major report. In an article labelled ‘Global cooling‘ journalist David Rose said that the growth in Arctic ice was proof of a worldwide global warming scam, and that the predictions of the current climate models were “gravely flawed”. Rose said that leaked reports showed that governments were demanding 1,500 changes to the Summary for Policy makers, as it failed to adequately explain the recent “pause” in global warming. As a result, he said, the IPCC was calling a crisis meeting to deal with the “revelations”. “Contrary to the articles the IPCC is not holding any crisis meeting,” it said in a statement. “The IPCC will convene a plenary session to finalize the Working Group I contribution to the IPCC’s Fifth Assessment Report, in line with its normal procedures, in Stockholm on 23-26 September 2013. “The session has been scheduled for several years and this timetable has been repeatedly publicized by the IPCC.” Pro's article from TheHill.com stating that there is "no real scientific proof" regarding the rise in greenhouse gases is actually an OpEd piece contributed by a seismologist/volcanolgist. In no way is this an actual corroborated scientific source, nor was it even contributed by the type of expert who could refute the plethora of evidence I've provided. Pro's citation of an article about the sun being responsible for a great share of climate change starts with the sentence "In the last 35 years of global warming, the sun has shown a slight cooling trend. Sun and climate have been going in opposite directions." It is an article debunking the exact myth that Pro is trying to perpetuate with their argument. Again, I'm not sure Pro actually read this. Finally, regarding the petition by "scientists", I urge voters to take a closer look. First of all, this petition is over 10 years old. A more "2013 peer-reviewed study evaluated 10,306 scientists to confirm that over 97 percent climate scientists agree, and over 97 percent of scientific articles find that global warming is real and largely caused by humans." Second of all, this petition required no actual proof that the signatories had the credentials they claimed. Third, and perhaps most importantly, many of the signatories in no way were qualified to give factual, unbiased opinions on the matter. Surely those who are best suited to make judgments here are climatologists, meteorologists, agencies like NASA, etc. (all of which are the type I provided). Here are just a few examples of the qualifications of those signatories on Pro's outdated petition, for which I have already provided a more recent, peer-reviewed counter: - Wilbur A. Aanes specializes in veterinary and animal surgery. - Ralph F. Abate specializes in bridge design - Ursula K. Abbott is an avian geneticist - Dirk Den Baars deals in the exploring and mining of copper and precious metals - P. S. Gaal works with the transport properties of materials These are just a select few of the hundreds (if not thousands) of scientists who signed this petition who were actually in no way qualified to do so. To restate: This petition is old and outdated I have provided a more recent, peer-reviewed, established petition which directly counters Pro's claim The signatories on Pro's petition are largely unqualified to opine on the matter To summarize this round's argument: Pro initially stated that Tesla was their source for all of their facts. Actually, their claims were all copied and pasted from a forum to which anyone can post. Pro claimed that Tesla's stance was one in line with his/hers, but did nothing to counter my proof that their stance was just the opposite Pro attempted to find new sources to support the points he/she found on the Tesla forum, but ultimately used ones that either proved exactly the opposite of what they were trying to say or were from non-scientific, opinion-based, unqualified sources It is clear that Pro did not read many of these sources as the claims he/she seems to think some of them prove are actually the description of the very myth they debunk

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Man-Made-Global-Warming-Isnt-Real/1/
  • PRO

    Therefore, women have two children or fewer, on average....

    Population control MUST be part of climate change/sustainable policies

    The population has been on a sharp incline since just a bit after the Industrial Revolution but I concede a SLOW DOWN of population growth OVERALL is in conjunction with 1) countries that implemented a one/two child rule, most notably China, who is still a leader in population numbers, 2) the rampant epidemic of AIDS, civil wars, droughts, & food scarcity in developing countries and 3) the urbanization and industrialization of countries. In an agrarian and/or semi nomadic lifestyle, children are a productive asset. Children can be put to work at a young age on a farm, pulling weeds and harvesting or simple workshop labor. They become a source of income & the more you have the better. Since there is no retirement plan in such societies, a large family can more easily support parents in old age. In a developed urban & industrial society, the economic value of children declines & children turn from instruments of production into objects of massive consumption. Not only are chances for employment at an early age diminished, but educational requirements explode dramatically so kids need to be supported much longer, sometimes into their mid-20s & nowadays into their 30s. In a cost benefits analysis a child cost a tremendous amount of money with limited return, if any, for parents. Thus, people have fewer children. For most people, a family of eight children would be a financial catastrophe. Therefore, women have two children or fewer, on average. As a result, the population contracts as it has OVERALL. BUT .... The population has only SLOWED DOWN in growth not declined overall and as a population grows, however slow, it unavoidably consumes more and more resources and needs more and more land. My contention is that the Earth has a limited amount of life sustaining resources that should be taken into account. Their is only so much freshwater, there is only so much arable land we can grow food on, there is only so much oxygen. Sure we are adaptable enough that we could 1) turn to draining the oceans & using desalination to produce freshwater, we could cut up sea and polar ice and melt it for drinkable water, 2) we can cut down more rainforests, clear more land for farming, develop more tech to farm in deserts and poor soil areas, 3) we can develop massive skyscraper size carbon and pollution scrubbers to create more oxygen and clean air. BUT WHY SPEND BILLIONS and BILLIONS of DOLLARS AND DISRUPT A WORKING SYSTEM (that by doing so will cause more problems and require billions more to try and rectify ) THAT PROVIDES OUR NEEDS NATURALLY AND TECHNICALLY FOR NEAR FREE ? Any life form, if the pollution grows higher then the area can sustain, unavoidably dies off. A lion pride that produces too many offspring and eats up all the animals in the area, will have to expand their territory in hopes of finding more food or die from starvation. A virus once it has overwhelmed and consumed all of a bodies energies, resources to the point that it can no longer maintain its systems, causes the body to die. it is a proven scientific fact multiple time & by various species. Humans may be a higher order thinking life form, but we are still a life form, & unavoidably we depend on the systems in place on Earth for our survival just like any other life form living on Earth. We can continue to grow and deplete resources and stretch life styes to their limits, all the while causing the extinction of species that are cogs in the wheels of the systems that sustain us, causing those systems to eventually collapse. It has been our business as usual for the past 100 years and can probably last for another 30-50 but why not implement actions to stop or at least extend the period of time BEFORE system collapses ? HOW those populations controls are written and implemented is a whole nother can of worm lol Religion, country infrastructure, medical systems, cultural traditions and views on family, ect ect, would play a part in any laws and policies. But I contend that with out some form of population control, no climate change/sustainable policies will make any meaningful impact. You can create policies that say every person is only able produce about 3,000 pounds a day ( which can be reduced with car pooling, sustainable energy, ect ) and that takes into account an urbanized citizen with access to a car, a home with electricity, and consumer goods and assumes the gradual industrialization of developing countries. With a global population of over 7 BILLION that equals about 21,000,000,000,000 pound of carbon A DAY. The oceans can absorb about 30%, though that is declining due to various climate, ecology, and environmental reasons, about 40% accumulates in the atmosphere, and about 30% is absorbed by terrestrial ecosystems. An average mature tree (at least 10-15 years old) can only absorb 48lbs A YEAR so each person on Earth would need about 33 MATURE EVERGREEN TREES each to be carbon neutral. ( thats just for our own HUMAN consumer needs and does not take into account the habitant needs of other animals, ecosystem balance, ect ) SO as the population grows, we will need more trees to be carbon neutral, and we can't cut down these trees, so eventually they will take over the arable land we need to feed ourselves. Personally population control policies I personally propose would be : 1) contraception is easily available, low cost or free 2) abortions are legal, easy available and at low cost - there would be attached policies and requirements but thats another issue 3) sex education is more readily available & a required course in public middle & high school & includes sexual misconduct laws & sentencing, responsible relationship guidelines and actions, sensitivity training - private schools that don't receive ANY federal or state funding, and schools with a religious guideline & charter are exempt from sex education classes as required a course but may not criminalize students from obtaining or possessing sex education materials unless it actively disrupts teaching when it is conducted (this time does not include recess, breaks between classes,mealtimes) 4) murders/harassment/repetitive slander/&intimidation against people, businesses, or organizations that perform sexual disease testing,abortions,adoptions,foster care,family planning & reproductive health service, shall be persecuted as a felony/hate crime 5) a two child limit on all citizens - those that wish to have more offspring agree to renounce all federal and state assistance - this does not include private individual funding, religious or private organizations charity, and crowd funding 6) adoption policies and procedures should be fast tracked and more openly available to all within the 2 child limit- excluding foster care and those that have renounced all federal and state assistance - this does not include private individual funding, religious or private organizations charity, and crowd funding More stringent policy would be : 1) pregnancy before the age of 25 (better if 30 ) results in a large fine, & a choice between abortion or adoption - if the mother chooses neither options, she relinquishes all right to federal & state assistance - this does not include private individual funding, religious or private organizations charity, & crowd funding I base these policies on on factual financial, social obligations and pressures of raising a child and the impact of a growing population on the environment. I an not religious therefor I do not take religion values into account THOUGH I do know and understand that religious values would be brought into any policies that touch on reproductive rights, for or against them, because many of these policies goes against religious teachings. My argument is that these policies are to promote social and environmental good and/or agendas FOR ALL REGARDLESS OF RELIGIOUS AFFILIACTION and not for promoting religious good or agendas so religion should not be involved as that

  • PRO

    If we keep warming after 2100, Then 3C and 4C are merely...

    "Fixing the Climate" should be a Low Priority for the USA

    1 ========= My Argument #1 First, You claim that it may be possible to cut P costs in half by spending Q. I have never heard this claim from any source, Please provide a link. Second you say, "The question is not about a delayed catastrophe or not. It is about the magnitude of the catastrophe. " Until warming stops and cooling starts (the so-called "peak"), Delay is the real question. The pretended option A is to keep the temperature increase below 2C by 2100. Unfortunately, No one says warming will stop in 2100. If we keep warming after 2100, Then 3C and 4C are merely delayed a few decades. Still, I would be willing to alter from "delay" to "magnitude" if you can provide a source that claims that warming will eventually stop. 2 ========= CATASTROPHE It is important to know how bad a problem is when determining the appropriate political response to it. You have said the CATASTROPHE will be massive at 3C, But are a bit vague on what "massive" is. You did mention that oceans, Salt, Hurricanes, Droughts, And wildfires will rise, And that land, Islands, Animals, Farmland, Trees (and people) will fall. I guess I should take it that each rise/fall will be "massive. " You did provide measurable data on a couple, So let"s review those: 1. Sea rise: "billions in damage over. . . 100 years" sounds like a manageable P cost of $50M per year (chump change for the USA). 3. Swallowed islands: do the "entire countries" mean random atolls in the Pacific? This would be sad but not significant in size. Or does it refer to the Philippines, Japan, And Malaysia? This would be both sad and significant. 3 ========= My Argument #2 There are no solutions that achieve the MORAL goal of "2C max rise" forever. While "98% of climate scientists say [humans] have an effect" on the climate, There is no scientific consensus on solutions. The CNN article I cited before suggests three mitigation paths: --- a --- "increased financial incentives to avoid greenhouse gas emissions" (whatever that means) --- b --- "greatly increased funding for research" (whatever that means) --- c --- "the plummeting cost of solar power". . . But solar can NEVER replace oil (1) Let's say these paths are somewhat useful. Still, The scientific study quoted in the CNN article acknowledges that, "even if humans suddenly stopped burning fossil fuels now, Earth will continue to heat up about 2C more by 2100. " The world's CO2 output is still growing and nowhere near stopping. So if returning to the stone age last year is required to achieve a "2C max rise" by 2100, We have no chance of averting a 3C or 4C CATASROPHE eventually. Therefore, There are no solutions so forget about Q costs. (1) "The Green Bubble" (2016) by Per Wimmer cites the International Energy Agency's forecast that the share of our energy needs provided by all renewable energy sources combined (including solar) will grow from 1% (now) to only 4% (in 2035). The book goes on to say that solar can never scale to the global or US energy needs.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Fixing-the-Climate-should-be-a-Low-Priority-for-the-USA/4/
  • CON

    Important small scale processes cannot be explicitly...

    Resolved: Countries ought work to end climate change/global warming.

    My opponents case goes as follows: 1. Global warming is an issue (exists and is man made) 2. Global warming causes disasters and hurts the economy. Now, my arguments on (2) proved environmental regulation bad. Further, (1) is the most important issue. If 1 is proven not to exist, or not man made I win the debate as fighting a natural problem spending billions of dollars is futile and a waste, and if global warming does exist (something my opponent has not responded too) I then win the debate. I have proven both of these points false. I will proceed: Fraud and methodology: Now, my opponent goes on to claim my data is false because it does not cover the whole world, (surface scanners) yet I have proven this. ANY surface scanner in an urban area will logically have a higher temperature reading then one in a rural one. I have proven throughout this debate this dilemma affected all surface scanners in all countries as all countries made this mistake. My opponent also ignores my case on how computer models (computer models is all of the evidence pro global warming) is highly flawed. Based on all of the computer model data, their predictions have always been wrong and exaggerated. [1] Every model made over guesses the amount of warming and exaggerates it ALL. As the IPCC notes in the book I am citing: “Models still show significant error, important large scale problems also remain. … Important small scale processes cannot be explicitly represented in models … Significant uncertainties, in particular are associated with resentation of clouds, and in the resulting cloud responses to climate change”.[1] This essentially means all of the global warming fata is flawed. My opponent ignored this point, although I did state it last round, hence the point still stands. My opponent then claims my data on scandals is not enough, I actually agree, BUT this does show large studies (the IPCC) are no longer accurate, and if readers scan my opponents sources and then the sources within the source, it always cites the IPCC. My opponents data is now highly faulty on those grounds. The point still stands. CO2 and N2O: My opponents claim here is his evidence refutes my CO2 claim, this is actually false. Nowhere in this debate (I have read your responses 3 times just by that comment) did I actually see you do; a) even find a correlation b) show that cycles from 1000s of years ago find a correlation. My opponent finds only a correlation in modern day times in round two, but this is highly refutable with natural cycles. There are major cycles every 11,000 years or so (stated) and minor changes every 1500 years or so (also stated). Now, the current warming phase was highly predictable using the 1500 year cycle data. This 1500 year cycle is well documented.[2] This fully explains the current warming phase. Further if CO2 was a climate factor, if we saw natural increases in CO2 there would also be natural rises in temperature hundreds of years ago, and there is no correlation, therefore the correlation fails on a scientific basis. Using figure 2.4 in source (1) we observe no statistical correlation, CO2 is low temperature may be high or vice versa. This right here disproves the theory. (If CO2 actually had an impact, natural increases would also raise temperature, it did not, hence it has no correlation) N2O may or may not make warming, but as I pointed out last round N2O is mainly a natural gas, and it does not have enough ppm (parts per million) to have any effects. My opponent ignores this analysis. My opponent also introduces new arguments last round (methane etc, never mentioned before this point) which is a conduct violation and basic DDO informal rules mean these arguments are thrown out. My opponent argued CO2 and N2O the whole debate, adding new substances last round is a conduct violation AND is discounted. May the judge rule “jury, ignore the previous statement.” Ice Sheets You NEVER argued overall ice sheets, you argued the same ones I argued, hence your argumentation here is a LIE. I have argued this whole debate: Northern ice expanding Southern ice expanding Various glaciers also expanding I covered almost every glacier, they are all expanding. My opponent this round actually dodges last rounds argumentation, hence I win the point. My opponent dropped arguments Global cooling Computer models (all of global warming “evidence”) is faulty Global warming does not exist (my opponent abandoned this idea round 3) CONCLUSION/VOTING ISSUES: My opponent dropped some of the 3 most critical sub points (two of them prove global warming is actually false) hence my opponent already loses the debate. Voting issues: 1) I have proven global warming is fake 2) I have proven if global warming exists, it is more likely due to sun cycles NOT emissions 3) My opponent dropped vital points. VOTE CON, it is futile to spend money on a natural occurrence OR it is futile to fight a non existent problem. [1] MacRae, Paul. “ Alarm: Global Warming-- Facts versus Fears.” Victoria, B.C.: Spring Bay, 2010. [2] Singer, S. Fred, and Dennis T. Avery. “Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1,500 Years.” Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield, 2007.

  • CON

    CO2 is NOT enough of the atmosphere to create global...

    Resolved: Countries ought work to end climate change/global warming.

    My opponents and my case are polar opposites, if proves global warming, mine debunks it. Hence my arguments actually refute his claims, and vice versa. So essentially our arguments are exactly the opposite. So my opponent has to prove: (1) Global warming exists and/or is man made This is the only thing he needs to prove, as the rest of his case is irrelevant if humans cant contribute to the warming (hence futile and a waste of time and labor to stop it, its gonna happen anyway), and prove the world is heating up (and if the following thing is not in place, this fails). So essentially my opponent has to prove two things, I have to prove: (1) Global warming is fake and/or natural. Now, this debate is easier on me, as my opponent has the BOP (being instigator and pro), and he has to prove both points, I only need to prove one to show a futile effort or a non-existent threat. So really, the BOP is on my opponent. "Facts" about global warming: My opponents main argument against the data that proves global warming faulty is my evidence is based in america, aka the surface stations. But my opponents case ignores the point: If we are failing in the US, then why would it be better in other countries? In the US, 89% of those surface stations create false results due to the fact certain obstacles (i.e. an air conditioner) create the false signals. [1] Further what my opponent misses is that this data (much of the date her nasa source talks poetic about) relies on this US data. Further, this data was and sometimes is relied throughout the whole world, so really, why would such human error not coincide. Also, for you to validate your point, you also need to prove global surface stations are NOT biased. Also, this site is based in Malaysia (my 1 source last round), and it takes more then US data, and disproves NASA's famed graphs. [2] My opponent then claims these "scientists" account for the.... differences so to speak. The funny thing is these scientists fail in other areas in the same thing. Much of their data relies on faulty mathematical equations that force them to do a lot of assumptions, therefore begging the question of their conclusions. [3] Also to prove they account for the urban effects, I think you must prove through studies that they have dummy variables as well. My opponent then claims my argument on fraud fails to touch every, I understand that, the argument was simply to show many of the evidences you posted may have huge errors in them, hence faulty. He then goes on about CO2, I will refute this. CO2 is NOT enough of the atmosphere to create global warming, its about 3%, and 6% of that CO2 is man made. In other words: "That means that less than 2/1,000 of all CO2 is produced by human activity. So even if we wiped out every car, power plant, jet liner, and human being from the face of the earth, there would be no noticeable effect on global CO2 levels."[4] So CO2, out of the picture. My opponent then talks about N2O, laughing gas. Over 90% of N2O is naturally produced. [5] Before we can assume this has an effect, my opponent must first now show a correlation, prove it, etc. Saying it hurts the ozone is not enough until you prove humans emit it enough to have any major effects, then find me a correlation, then we talk. My opponent then claims certain areas (specifics) are not relevant, that first ignores basic statistics and then he knows makes it easier for him to win. Individual areas are great tools, as a minority effects the majority in statistics overall. If 100 kids exist, 10 are sick, that minority has a large effect if we polled are you sick. Also for there to be global warming, the ice caps are logically suppose to be melting (to account for the rise in sea waters). If I disprove this (I did) then my opponents case crumbles. also: http://www.debate.org... http://bit.ly... No upward trend. Greenland: My opponent concedes the point claiming what happens in any one area explains the whole, that means my opponents arguments are invalid too. So I extend argument, and proceed to his arctic example: Now if your interested, there is a moving graph in the source I am providing, if you look at its data the temperature STAYS THE SAME, on average. Here is how they explain it: "Each frame of animation equals one year. As you can see the temperature does fluctuate but there is clearly no significant general rise in temperature and the portion of the red curve poking above the blue line (i.e. the period when ice would melt) is clearly not growing."[6] Essentially saying the temperatures needed t melt it are not changing in length, hence ice cannot melt. "As you can plainly see the ice is getting thicker [refers to moving picture], not thinning faster than Kojak's hair. Polar Bears will not be drowning, the Walruses will not be beaching themselves due to lack of ice (which by the way is normal and not something to get over-excited about) and the Arctic Fox probably doesn't need to go on the endangered species list because of that old faux global warming." [7] Not to mention growing glaciers. [8] Global cooling: There is ~ 11 year solar cycle, the time your data shows warming. The cycle is over, scientists are now drifting to the earth is cooling, or will begin to cool. "In fact global warming has stopped and a cooling is beginning. Mojib Latif from the University of Kiel argued at the recent UN World Climate Conference in Geneva that the cooling may continue through the next 10 to 20 years. His explanation was a natural change in the North Atlantic circulation, not in solar activity. But no matter how you interpret them, natural variations in climate are making a comeback." [9] "Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997... Meanwhile, since the end of last year, world temperatures have fallen by more than half a degree, as the cold ‘La Nina’ effect has re-emerged in the South Pacific." [10] http://c3headlines.typepad.com... http://www.c3headlines.com... = cooling (graphs wont post peices of.....) Benefits/Harms: Your argument only works if global warming exists, and if it is man made. If it does not exist, then only harms happen (economic). If it is man made, the regulations hurt (economic), and the other harms are inevitable, so it is futile to fight it. So, my opponent must prove both, if anything this is a sub point to the overall factors. Plus, another reason the globe is not heating up is because the atmosphere is not heating up, hence refuting all claims. [11] CONCLUSION: Vote CON, global warming is a hoax and if it exists is natural, hence my opponents case fails as it fights a nonexistent. issue or a futile natural pattern. Soures: [1] http://bit.ly... [2] http://bit.ly... [3] http://bit.ly... [4] http://bit.ly... [5] http://1.usa.gov... [6] http://bit.ly... [7] http://bit.ly... [8] http://bit.ly... [9] http://bit.ly... [10] http://bit.ly... [11] http://bit.ly...

  • CON

    4] For there to be a valid correlation, it must also work...

    Resolved: Countries ought work to end climate change/global warming.

    Fraud, methods My computer deleted my argument, so excuse me if my arguments are mainly quotes and me rushing, I will make a final appearance last round. "Regions of the world that exhibit significant warming over recent decades is likely the result of a robust urban heat island effect - South Korea's warming climate provides evidence ... Yang et al. published an extensive study on the impact of UHI on China's warming and discovered that over 40% of the increase could be explained by the UHI effect in some urban areas. ..."[1] "Likewise, the rate of increase in the annual number of daily maximum temperature 95th percentile exceedences per year over the same time period was found to be 50% greater at urban stations than it was at rural stations."[2] Quote 1 shows global problems, quote 2 shows urban/rural problems (hinting urban island effect) in the US. Further the IPCC's data (your nasa links use that as a source) are highly flawed. I will quote is from this PHD person :P: "1. Likely sources of bias in the surface temperature record of the last 150 years, which are well known and considerable, are ignored. The amount of warming is claimed to be known with a false degree of confidence. We do not, in fact, know for certain that the earth has warmed at all. 2. The profound inconsistency between the recent warming in the surface temperature record, and the absence of warming in the satellite record, is simply shrugged off. 3. The enormous, and growing, uncertainty as to the effect of aerosols on climate is masked in the discussion, and is deliberately suppressed in predicting the future. If included, the UN IPCC 100 year prediction would include the possibility of no warming or even cooling. 4. The fact that the vast majority of all greenhouse gas emissions are natural is ignored. 5. Advances in climate science that do not support the theory of human interference have been ignored."[3] Not to mention the IPCC is dictated and subject to government review, and their computer models are subject to easy editing and have been found for frauds (basically they hid data, edited data, ignored data, and used bias computer models).[4] Also more info here. [5] The methodology AND the credibility are faulty. CO2, N2O, and all that fun stuff My opponent ignores the natural factors I have listed for global warming (like the sun, I will bring it up again this round). Co2- There is no correlation until recently, there has been no historical correlation. In the past, temperatures may be low and Co2 might be high, and vice versa. [4] For there to be a valid correlation, it must also work in the historical perspective. Also to note, even if we created ALL fossil fuels and burned them, it would go from ~380 ppm (parts per million) to 600-800 ppm, under the former amounts this planet has seen.[4] Historically no correlation, hence cannot work, its only .4% of our atmosphere and only 6% of that is man made, and human fossil fuels can barely double the number, CO2 is not a villain. N2O- 70% is natural, 30% is man made. [6] 5% of the "green house effect" is N2). [7] The low concentrations mean it has no current effect to any large extent. Also, if it has an effect then it must cool the earth or have no effect, the earth is cooling,[4] also: http://www.paulmacrae.com... As we can see from these facts, the earth has not warmed since the late 1990s (90-97) its hard to cause soemthing thats not happening (my (1) argunment, also we must look at my (2) argunment before looking at your Co2 and N2O argunments). We must look at the more likely NATURAL factors in global warming, assuming it exists. Generally undereported as the IPCC decides to ignore those factors (see above). Now, there HAS been warming in the 20th century, and according to nasa estimates we have seen an increase in solar activity in that time. Now his is important, as if sustained for a while (1850-1997) it can lead to large increases in temperture, then begin to flat line temperture, then lead to cooling. The sun plays the largest role (even in alarmists eyes) in heating and cooling cycles. In germany, people claim to have the highest sun activity in 1000 years! [4] This basic cycle is what is heaing the earth in the early 21st and late 20th century.Further, there is a scientific fact sunspots = more activity, therefore more warming. There is enough sun spots to lead to warming, hence the increases are natural [highly likely]. (note my opponent never refted this, and just ignores my data). Also there is a 1500 year cycle. This creates interglacial cycles (like the one that is ending in which we are in). The cycle is +/- 500 years. It is unstoppable global warming, like what we are in, therefore global warming prevention is poorly thought out. Overall tempertures I understand this, I have shown local cooling in these areas which rise the sea (you argue shrinking ice sheets, I countered it with an oppisite argunment). Hence my point was a counter to yours (you used it as global warming, it is hyprocritical to say I cant use it, then your evidence here is irrelevant too). So if my opponent means what he says round 2 AND this round, much of his C1 is irrelevant, hence the main leg of his case. Greenland You never refuted my evidence until now, just claimed it irrelevant. Hence you dropped my argunment (until now) and proved your C1 largely irrelevant. "This past week, climatologist Cliff Harris of the Coeur d’Alene Press received an astounding report from Yakutat, Alaska, concerning the Hubbard Glacier. The glacier is advancing toward Gilbert Point near Yakutat at the astonishing rate of two meters (seven feet) per day!"[8] (so... isn't alaska part of the artic which is losing glaciers you claim?) "The overall ice thickness changes are ... approximately plus 5 cms (1.9 inches) a year or 54 cms (21.26 inches) over 11 years," according to the experts at Norwegian, Russian and U.S. institutes led by Ola Johannessen at the Mohn Sverdrup center for Global Ocean Studies and Operational Oceanography in Norway." [9] (wait, so its thickening?) "East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades." [10]So its getting colder... Global Cooling No, my argunments also rely on NOAA.gov data. Use 1997-2012 data. downward trend. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov... graph wont show, put in 1997-2012, there is a down trend. CONCLUSION: World not heating, world heating may be natural, world might be cooling, vote CON, cant fix a non stoppable or non existant problem. [1] http://www.c3headlines.com... [2] http://www.co2science.org... [3] http://www.john-daly.com... [4] Paul MacRae "False Alarm, Global Warming – Facts Versus Fears" Spring Bay Press, British Columbia Canada. [5] http://paulmacrae.com... [6] http://en.wikipedia.org... [7] http://www.physicalgeography.net... [8] http://www.iceagenow.com... [9] http://www.iceagenow.com... [10] http://www.foxnews.com...

  • PRO

    The gov't has been doing that with oil for decades and...

    The US needs to do much more to combat climate change

    What do you mean you cant just invest. The gov't has been doing that with oil for decades and you never complained. We need The gov't has been doing that with oil for decades and you never complained. We need real energy soulutions for the modern world and need to stop guzzling on saudi oil.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/The-US-needs-to-do-much-more-to-combat-climate-change/1/
  • PRO

    Very well I can do the same I guess. ... Here are some...

    Global Climate Change is a problem and needs to be addressed.

    Ok so instead of arguing and coming up with evidence you just decide to discredit my sources. Very well I can do the same I guess. In response to your link from the Committee of Environment and Public Works we are only looking at the minority page. Plus its their blog. Sure they may have cited resources but they are only citing sources that fit in with their agenda. Are they going to give you any bi-partisan view? Of course not. Senator Inhofe comes from a state where oil Very well I can do the same I guess. In response to your link from the Committee of Environment and Public Works we are only looking at the minority page. Plus its their blog. Sure they may have cited resources but they are only citing sources that fit in with their agenda. Are they going to give you any bi-partisan view? Of course not. Senator Inhofe comes from a state where oil is king, I find it a little hard to take him too seriously. Most of the research talks about a global temperature model which hasn't really be considered accurate. It seems more like a twisting of words more than anything. After reading through some of them like this one http://www.npr.org... it sounds more like they are unsure. Those books I suggested are some of the resources that I cited my information from. Those books are all interrelated to each-other and allows the reader to look at things on a broader scale. Tim flannery has a cited section in his book. He isn't just making up facts on random and publishing them. Sustaining the Earth is peer reviewed by other experts in the field. You can even find their names and credentials in the book. You can even find all of the research that was cited. Fritjof Capra system theories is a very important book. It is examining various natural systems and their affects. Such as the Carbon cycle or ocean currents. It gives a viewpoint on all parts and gives a better understanding on system affects and what happens when we change them for better or for worse. Jeremy Rifkin, The hydrogen economy is not totally using hydrogen as a resource. It also talks about, mismanagement of fossil fuels, the over estimate of current oil fields, and the hydrogen cycle. Please if you are going to complain about the sources read them at least before you do. Clearcutting was back in response to the previous round,here is my statement "Deforestation needs to be stopped and more environmentally friendly techniques must be taken. Like selective cutting rather than the clear-cutting Brazil is using today". and yours-This is an opinion I made that argument because clear-cutting is promoting erosion. When the rain comes from the remainder of the rain forest it washes away the rich topsoil and leaves the farmers with bare land that they cannot farm on. Plus by removing the trees they are eliminating all the nutrients that would go back and replenish the ground there fore breaking the carbon cycle. Yes the internet is an awful place for sceintfic journals. All you get mainly is tid bits and newspaper quotes from the journals rather than all the research. Plus if we are truely trying to use these as sole resources then you must play by the rules. Many of these arguments that you are presenting fail the third rule of appeal to athority, in other words they have a bias. My sources are contained in many of those books. I have backed up my information. You still haven't responed to the natural rate article or anything else in the articles that i have mentioned previously. Here are some more though. http://cdiac.ornl.gov... http://laps.fsl.noaa.gov... The burden of proof is on me however you have done very little to dispute my claims. When I give you my resources you balk and complain. I fail to see how this is a productive use of our time. You said for me to show a relationship between greenhouse gases and temperature. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov... You have failed to cite any specific sources that refute my claim. All you have done is attempt to dispute my sources and discredit them. I don't think its voter bias that causes you to lose but rather poor argumentation skills, poor evidence, and lack of tact. Please try and find specific sources not a link to a government blog to a list. That would not fly on any professional paper. I mean you just bashed Man Bear Pig when he presented sources that actaully have some crediblitly to disputing Global Warming instead. On a side note Man Bear Pig I would love to have a debate with you on the subject and I am keenly interested on more of your points. I would be very appreciative if you could perhaps email some of your points. I enjoy looking at both sides and its very rare that I see the other side presented so well, kudos to you.

  • CON

    Polar ice is expanding We can see from data in Greenland...

    Resolved: Countries ought work to end climate change/global warming.

    My case is essentially a counter case to my opponents, so it refutes his arguments in and of itself. 1. Global warming, true? Much of the data that claims the world is heating is actually unreliable, the classic examples (cited in most global warming editorials) is the ground heaters that show massive increases, yet the funny thing is they are unreliable. First, these scanners started seeing heat at certain times, mainly around 2000. At the same time, many of these stations where previously recording no change. But in 2000, many of the recorders where moved or things where built. Many where found like this. One started seeing increased temperatures, BUT the time it saw an increase is when an are conditioner was installed next to it. [1] Now this is a problem as the air conditioner emits hot air, hence the increases in these modules can be linked to the air conditioner. Many of the recorders used where moved into urban areas when previously where rooted in the suburbs. They saw an increase, obviously, they installed them next to roads, asphalt reflects heat, metal buildings, same problems as roads, and then again a lot near air conditioners. A kid could see the problems with this. Other stations saw growth if they where rooted in suburbs, then the suburbs expanded in population, more houses roads etc. [2] As we can see this has serious problems as these highly cited materials fall into one basic problem: The extra asphalt, man made heating objects therefore emit heat near the censors confounding the result, hence there is a likely hood many of the stats you cite are, well, unreliable. Further many of the large studies that show global warming are highly exaggerated, and have been found of fraud accounts. Hence the data my opponent cites is data, but whether or not the data is fabricated is another question. [3] 89% of global warming detectors failed to meet accuracy standards due to the reasons above. [8] Quote: " The southern hemisphere of the earth has been generally cooling for the past fifty years, Hundreds of years of data show that temperature rises precede increase in CO2 levels, rather than following them, Ice cover at the north and south pole is growing, which results in more glaciers breaking away Throughout the 20th Century, temperatures have been rising on other planets in our solar system – including Mars, Jupiter, Pluto, and Triton, Neptune's largest moon – where few people drive SUVs. This clearly points to increased solar activity as the cause of global warming on the Earth, rather than any human activity." [10] http://a-sceptical-mind.com... (graphs) My graphs aren't posting anymore, its really annoying, is it like this for everybody? I cant ask Ima for cnfidnetial reasons. 2. Polar ice is expanding We can see from data in Greenland that the ice and snow is actually expanding, not decreasing like Al Gore would claim. As we can see: "Though the ice may be melting around the edges of the Greenland Icecap in recent years during the warm mode of the AMO much as it did during the last warm phase in the 1930s to 1950s, snow and ice levels continue to rise in most of the interior. Johannessen in 2005 estimated an annual net increase of ice by 2 inches a year." [4] Cold war satellites (during time of their function), find that the ice is expanding continually in Greenland, and not decreasing. These stations first received 4 feet of snow, per fall, but in 2006 many of the stations where semi-burried by the snow. The site, formerly alive, is now buried in snow, while greenland ice expands. [5] Now what about overall arctic ice volume? Using US navy data the volume of the ice is increasing and the ice is expanding. [6] "The blink map above shows the change in ice thickness from May 27, 2008 to May 27, 2010. As you can see, there has been a large increase in the area of ice more than two metres thick – turquoise, green, yellow and red. Much of the thin (blue and purple) ice has been replaced by thicker ice." [6] So the thin ice is being defeated, this implies that the ice is getting thicker, this requires colder temperatures, this is an "arrow to the knee" for global warming proponents. How can ice get thicker under warmer temperatures, and how can formerly thin ice get thicker? 3. Global cooling? Now, this is generally pushed to the side in most climate change debates. Well yaddy blah blah blank my liberal science teacher said X. People are mainly going of knee jerk reactions look towards the "majority". Ice in the caps are one way both sides look at the global warming debacle. New data has come to light, we see the earth is no longer "warming", assuming those faulty data sets are correct, but cooling. [7] Now if the things near metal buildings are seeing cooling, this means the earth must be REALLY cooling down to show a decrease. "As Robert Felix just reported in his authoritative iceagenow.com, on various days is June of 2009 there were record low temperatures in 18 states; record low temperatures in 15 states; record low temperatures in 24 states; record low temperatures in 11 states; record low max temperatures in 20 states; record low temperatures in seven states; and record low temperatures in 10 states." [8] 4. Even if the earth is warming, it may be natural. http://www.forbes.com... (page two graph) Due to the predicatable fluctuations, we can assume we could predict the cycles and it also shows that global warmign is also caused by a natural cause. Also: http://www.isil.org... (half way down graph[s]) This also shows the earths temperture is constantly changing, and we can assume it is a natural fluctuation. With this data, the resolution is negated as even if you prove the global wamring scare, you need to explain the natura fluctuations which easily explain it. If global warmign exists, the governments CANT do anything to stop natural cycles, hence it would be a waste of reasources. 5. Economic harms of regulations First if we assume humans create this phenomona, we must ask what is the cause? The most common claim is human CO2 and oil usage, natural gas etc. But these regulations DO harm the economy. Many of tese regulations are huge costs to buisness, this is hard on them as now they must eiher give up or find ways to compensate (fire workers, or declare bankrupsy), and then no body is helped. These regulations hurt buisness by raising costs, and higher costs to buisness hurt the companies, econ 101. Further, many of these regulations outsoruce jobs for the reason above, or actually make it impossible to do X here, so they do X in china as they can actually do stuff there. One perfect regulaton is the congress' plan to regulate 85% of energy, this harms big time. It is estimated to lease 85% of our energy, and prevent them from drilling on areas that could sustain us from Saudi Arabias imports for 30 years. [9] So these regulations FORCE other countries to take our supplies, well not take, but replace and indirectly take out jobs. Sorry, tese regulaitosn hurt us. CONCLUSION: My case disproves global warming claims, and proves if global warming occurs it is likely natural, hence if it doesn't exist its a waste of time, if it does exist but is natural its a waste of time, if the earth is cooling it is a waste of time, and if it hurts the economy it is one colstly downside. My case esentially refutes my opponents, and I used facts. I urge a CON vote. _________ [1] http://bit.ly... [2] http://bit.ly... [3] http://onforb.es... [4] http://bit.ly... [5] http://bit.ly... [6] http://bit.ly... [7] http://on.wsj.com... [8] http://bit.ly... [9] http://bit.ly... [10] http://bit.ly...

  • PRO

    Relied upon: To trust or place confidence in...

    Global climate models are accurate enough to be relied upon

    Resolved: Global climate models are accurate enough to be relied upon Definitions: Global climate models: Mathematical models which are used to predict future temperature changes under various scenarios http://en.wikipedia.org... Relied upon: To trust or place confidence in http://dictionary.reference.com... Round one will be for acceptance only.