args

The feminism movement should not be impeded by Bronze Age texts

Arguments: 1. Is feminism irreproachable? The very least of my argument against pro's position would be, essentially, what is wrong with “delaying” the “definition” of certain women's “rights”, as per my opponents definitions? Take consideration: an inappropriately defined right would respectively lead to said inappropriate right being established and achieved (by my opponents given definition, although such a case would not be much of an achievement in reality). For example, would the establishment of “equality” for women in the form of having them perform alongside males in athletics be appropriate, on the inherent value of a skewed sense of equality? This isn't just a purely hypothetical scenario either, such cases are already being discussed [1], even on this very site, with certain justifications for yes votes reflecting the sad state of delusion left on society by feminism, such as “Gender Shouldn't Matter Gender should not be a factor in determining the opponents and teammates of an athlete. Girls are just as strong as boys, and with hard work and perseverance can train themselves to be better at their sport then the boys. It is sexist to use gender as a factor in determining the athlete's abilities, and demeaning to tell a girl "you can't play on the team, you aren't strong enough."” [2]. The grandiose delusion I speak of in the aforementioned reference, is that males and females are on equal par in regards to physical abilities; anybody who has been through secondary education should have the knowledge that this is obviously erroneousness [3], although I wouldn't even patronise a young child by insinuating they did not know such a self-evident fact. Just in case there are any contentions about the fact that men and women are physically different, there are many scientific studies which attest to this fact (e.g. [4]), although a cross-examination of Great British powerlifting records show the disparity between the physical strength of men and women; for example, the record for the open 84kg weight class for females for open equipped squat is 212.5kg, whilst the record for the open 83kg weight class for males unequipped squat is 262.5kg, let alone the respective open 83kg weight class for males equipped squat being 342.5kg – not to mention that the women's weight class only extend to 84kg+, while men's extends to 120kg+ [5]. Furthermore, more appropriately, cross-examination of world records in athletics clearly show a difference in the physical aptitude of males and females [6]. Another example could be endeavours to establish equality in conscription laws, which would see women being legally obliged to fight on the front line as infantry, all in the aims of equalising women's rights in relation to men's. Once again, this isn't an entirely hypothetical scenario, as Norway has already started “conscripting” women, although there conscription laws being liberal in these cases, with the female population of their military being only 9% [7], clearly showing the hypocritical lack of “equality” despite their misguided ideologies. All this, clearly shows that despite what ever intentions, feminism is not infallible and sometimes needs to be challenged. In a means to increase relevancy to the overall subject of the debate, I refer you to Numbers 1:2-3 “Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, [...] every male by their polls; From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel” [8], illustrates that Biblically only men who were expected to be drafted to fight. A final question at this point, that is, does my opponent believe there is any literature whatsoever that has a right to impede feminism? 2. Does the age of literature automatically void their worth? The second area of my argument is simply a criticism of my opponents fallacious presupposition, given the resolution, that the fact that a piece of text is ancient is reason alone to dismiss it as a whole; there were many texts from antiquity [9], and to dismiss any arguments from all these texts simply due to their age is, well, silly. For example, take one of the Ten Commandments from Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill.” [10], which I think we can agree teaches a correct moral law, and then take Elliot Rodgers manifesto, which, once again I think we can agree, promotes immoral ideology, especially in reference to females [11]; doing so, we can evidently see that despite the antiquity of the former and the modernity of the latter, one is morally correct, whilst the other is severely lacking in morality. As a side note, I should also mention, that being a Christian, it is my view that the Bible is timeless, so criticisms on its antiquity is not pertinent – although I do not expect that my opponent will concede to this viewpoint. 3. Therefore, the pro resolution is essentially flawed. We see then, in principle, given that feminism isn't infallible and irreproachable, sometimes it should be impeded in its goals, and since the age of a text is not indicative of its worth, there is no inherent reason to prohibit Bronze Age texts from impeding feminism. My opponent even concedes to this point where he states that “[he is] not adverse to taking the good bits from [the Bible]”, but that simply he “cannot conceive of any aspect of this ancient traditional view that could impede the progress of feminism and still be considered a good bit”, displaying that its not that he is arguing that Bronze Age texts should not impede feminism in essence, but that he just has not seen any reason as of yet for any Bronze Age text to impede feminism, which I would disagree with. 4. Why Bronze Age texts (namely the Bible) should impede feminism. Now, to the crux of the issue, one example I would like to give as to how Biblical text should unquestionably impede feminism, is in the matter of abortion rights. Abortion is widely seen in feminist ideology as right of absolute free to all women [12], whilst the Bible takes opposition to such ideology, by declaring the sinfulness of abortion Exodus 21:22-24 “If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her [...] if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth” [13], and as such, I believe that in the case of “women's rights” to open access to abortion should be impeded on such grounds. That is not to say that I believe that those who take part in abortions should be killed, as the referenced scripture states, in light of further scripture in Matthew 5:38-39 “Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil” [14]. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I look forward to tackling my opponent specific contentions in regards to my stance on feminism and ancient texts – namely the Biblical texts. I will be saving my rebuttals for the following round(s). [1]: http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk... [2]: http://www.debate.org.../ [3]: http://www.bbc.co.uk... [4]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.../ [5]: http://www.gbpf.org.uk... [6]: http://www.iaaf.org.../ [7]: http://www.norway.org.uk... [8]: https://www.biblegateway.com... [9]: http://en.wikipedia.org... [10]: https://www.biblegateway.com... [11]: http://abclocal.go.com... [12]: http://socialistworker.org... [13]: https://www.biblegateway.com... [14]: https://www.biblegateway.com...

Modern Feminism Is Pointless

1) But women aren't doing that currently, and that's unfortunate. I don't wish for all those lazy helpless women to define my entire gender, though. 2) People care about breast cancer and "save the boobies" because breasts are mystical, pretty, valuable in our society. That's why breast cancer gets more attention than other "unsexy" cancers. 3) Two different kinds of rape. Random acts of sexual assault by criminal strangers tends to be clothes that's easy to remove, and rape at home by a non-stranger (the majority of cases) isn't scathed by unglamorous hoodies and pajamas. Society doesn't explicitly tolerate rape, and I never meant to suggest that, but it can excuse cases and make them out to be not a big deal. For example, if a girl is a slut, it's culturally assumed that "she wanted it" and the sexual assault is therefore not as big of a deal. It's unfair. As I said, women get raped more in countries where they're in veiled burqas rather than bikinis--clothes don't provoke rape--but they make ALL the difference in whether a rape is considered excused, justified, or enabled. Also, girls are told not to wear revealing clothes because they "don't help in a rape situation." If you're concerned about stranger rapes, though, that link shows that rapists like grabbable ponytails. So why is a party girl in a short skirt causing more of a fuss than a late-night jogger in easy-to-pull-down overalls and a ponytail? Because of cultural sex-negative mindsets regarding sluts. 4) If I act extremely hungry, that doesn't mean you can shove food down my throat. Likewise, if I'm flirty and slutted up, that could be interpreted as an OK sign to look and flirt. But that doesn't give anyone the right to violate my bodily autonomy or make me uncomfortable. Even if I'm a slut, sluts have feelings; we're thinking beings. That's a message society needs in the public discourse, because the mindset of "consent to look can be consent to anything" is toxic and leads to assaults and sexual harassment. That's not cool. 5) I wasn't quite bringing up sex either. Rather, I was saying that sex-negative mindsets hurt female victims of rape cases, and that certain societal attitudes are also hurtful to male victims of rape. While I'm on this subject, I want to stress that neither form of sexism is inherently worse. They're just different. 6) Oh, okay. That's understandable. Well, it IS a women's liberation movement, so it would make sense that they'd tackle issues that negatively impact women. Rape to men is worth focus, as I mentioned earlier, but if feminism is focusing on rape to men, that's just a fortunate bonus, not a duty. 7) Yeah, my views are pretty radical. But the "appeal to tradition" fallacy just falls flat on its face--just because it's existed for a long time, how does that make modesty standards inherently good? Some cultures across the world, such as the Nuba, Surma, and Yawalapiti tribes, are often naked. There's nothing wrong with that; there's nothing shameful about the human body. 8) Well, feminism IS a women's liberation movement. It only makes sense that they'd tackle issues that are negatively impacting them. It's not right that feminists should see men as demonized oppressors; men are civilized members of society, and they're not the only ones perpetuating anti-woman mindsets. From my experience, the everyday women who calls herself a feminist is quick to blame things on men, but the scholarly feminists blame things on societal attitudes and gender roles, which is more accurate. It's not fair to blame things on men alone, so I think we should also start discussing society's attitudes and gender roles as the demons. Does there need to be a national movement? I suppose. It's pointless to tackle the little tangible things, like Barbie dolls or Goldie Blox, when there are broad mindsets against women. For example, it's common that men are portrayed as the "default" and that women are a token variation, that stuff regarding men is the mainstream and women's stuff is segregated off as "chick stuff." Though any reasonable person will say that men and women are equals, few (if any) dare to claim that femininity is masculinity's equal. Girls who do guy stuff are cool, whereas girly stuff is laughable on a guy--implying that femininity is weak and less valuable. But nonetheless, it doesn't matter who's MORE oppressed by gender injustices. We just need to focus on the fact that they unfairly exist. So feminism could be a great tool to dissolve the issue of women being viewed differently. Also, "you have to earn it." That argument is always, always brought up against sluts. We're all born with the human right to respect, so demanding a woman to conform to a limiting set of archaic sex-negative ideals is just cruel. Society has a terrible idea that sluts aren't worthy of earning respect, and that's awful and needs to be fixed. Are there issues with some modern feminists? Yeah. I'm not denying that. Feminism might be jacked up in current practice, but it's still important in philosophy. Same with men's rights activism--there are some visibly notorious members, but it's still necessary to dissolve men's injustices. Gender injustice is far from resolved, so we just need to listen, care, and fight alongside each other.

Modern Feminism Is Pointless

Just to clarify: I identify myself as a gender-egalitarian, which means I believe that men and women (and people of non-standard genders!) should be viewed on the same level, as people foremost, with gender as just another aspect of someone like height or eye color. I believe gender should not be used to define, categorize, limit, or repress. I believe in feminism as a women's liberation movement is still necessary. It's common that men are portrayed as the "default" and that women are a token variation, that stuff regarding men is the mainstream and women's stuff is segregated off as "chick stuff." Though any reasonable person will say that men and women are equals, few (if any) dare to claim that femininity is masculinity's equal. But nonetheless, it doesn't matter who's more oppressed by gender injustices. We just need to focus on the fact that they unfairly exist. So feminism could be a great tool to dissolve the issue of women being viewed differently. Onto your points: 1) That's totally unfair that women can get away with things solely for being women. It's gender roles--implying that a woman is innocent and weak, saying that she couldn't possibly hurt someone and that hurting a woman is intolerable. Those are terrible mindsets that limit women's potential, and while some sects of feminism unfortunately perpetuate this (which just makes the genders further imbalanced), I think responsible feminism should pave the path to women being treated the same as men, even if it means that things will be tough. 2) Onto rape. People tend to think of rape as a stranger jumping out of the bushes to assault a revealingly dressed woman. Wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong. 73% of rapes were committed by a non-stranger, and 50% of them occurred at home.[1] From anecdotal EMT experience, those victims were in sweatpants, yoga pants, hoodies, even footie pajamas with Elmo on them. All this "rape prevention" advice falls flat on its face when you realize that the perpetrators were boyfriends, stepdads, uncles, etc. If you're talking about stranger rape discourse, you're also wrong about revealing clothes causing rape! http://www.ripleycounty.com... According to the Ripley County Sheriff's Department, rapists don't look for revealing clothes. They look for passiveness, easy-to-remove clothes (such as overalls--they cut the straps off easily). Also, rapes occur more in countries where women wear veiled burqas than where they're strutting around in bikinis. Yet people say revealing clothes cause rape. It's a horrible anti-woman mindset, claiming that consent to look at a woman is also consent to do more than look. It's sex-negative, claiming that a woman's sexiness negates her right to respectable personhood. That's far from the truth. She's still a thinking human being with feelings and bodily autonomy; consent to look is not consent to touch. You have no more right to ravish a slut's body than to a woman in baggy sweatpants. Men aren't animals; they're civilized members of society. I get turned on by toned biceps and abs, but I don't go around ravishing buff strangers. Why? Because I have a smidge of human decency. Everyone has the potential for that same self restraint, so it wasn't the victim acting a certain way--it was the fault of a jerk. Men are people who make decisions. Let's stop talking about "he couldn't stop himself" and start talking about "he decided not to stop." Men deserve that dignity, and the responsibility that comes with it. By framing their actions as a force of nature, you're excusing them. So, women can't "take responsibility" for the actions of someone else that they didn't ask for. They did not provoke it; it was the societal attitudes and gender roles that excused the rapist's acts, and it's time to take a stand against such unfair cruelty. Sure, if my rack and butt are hanging out, I may certainly want to bang. Come flirt with me. But when you take it as a given, acting like horniness is consent to everyone and you don't need to ask, and going ahead and banging me without me even speaking up, that's a violation. I didn't consent to be in that position. If I say I'm hungry, that doesn't mean you can shove food down my throat. Sure, men can be horny "idiots," as you call them. Horniness is fine; it's a natural feeling. But their horniness doesn't excuse them from politeness and certainly doesn't excuse them from violating or making people uncomfortable. And "proper women" just sickens me. Why is it that sex degrades a woman's character, but enhances a man's character? Unfair, to say the least. As a woman, I believe we need to take a stand against societal attitudes that could hurt us.

Feminism is currently helping us reach gender equality in 1st world countries

Thank you for accepting this debate. Good luck. Now I have one request for you, read everything I have to say and consider it. Speaking to you as person to person I want this debate to act like a bridge to reach common ground and have everyone leave the debate with a better understanding of how the world is. Thank you in advance. Now let's begin. Let me open by introducing you to a fairly recent poll. ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com............ ). A total of 20% of Americans support feminism, despite this an overwhelming majority of 82% of Americans are in favor of equality between the sexes. The only logical explanation for this is people see feminist actions and they don't believe that feminism is for equality. Why do a vast majority of Americans believe in sex equality, but only a small majority of 20% of Americans support feminism? Well let me bring up a woman named Lauren Southern. Some time back she held up a sign saying "I don't need feminism because I believe in equality" ( https://www.youtube.com............ ) In this video she talks about how in the movement of feminism the only issues that are talked about are women's issues, on the other hand men's issues are outright ignored. She then talks about the many issues men face. This includes men actually being raped MORE than women in the U.S. if you take all rapes into account, including prison rape. ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk............ ) Next she talks about how men make up almost half of domestic abuse victims, but they do not receive any of the help that women have when they are victims. She also talks about how men make up 80% of suicide victims. ( http://www.avoiceformen.com............ ), 92% of workplace deaths ( http://amptoons.com............ ), 97% of combat deaths ( http://www.avoiceformen.com............ ) and 77% of homicide ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov............ ). She also talks about how men go through many of the same problems women do that feminists complain about. This includes objectification, rape, and mistreatment, yet feminism acts like only women go through these things. That is not equality. Many of feminism's responses to this is that is that feminism is actually trying to help solve the issues men face. This is outright not true. When is the last time you've seen a protest that talks about very serious issues men face such as losing custody in 84% of divorces regardless of whether they can do a better job raising the child, despite their wives initiating the divorce 66% of the time. ( http://www.avoiceformen.com............ ). I have never seen nor heard of feminists protesting such an issue, therefore one can conclude that feminism does NOT help solve issues men face. Other feminists will say that these issues stem from stereotypes about men and women. I'm not going to deny this, however I will say that feminism is not helping at all. Many of these problems stem from women being seen as victims while men are seen as the abusive perpetrators, such as the domestic abuse problem I previously talked about. This stereotype also causes other issues such as men being 165% more likely to be convicted than women, men receiving 63% longer sentences than women for the exact same crime and studies finding that gender court bias against men is 6 times that of bias against race ( http://www.law.umich.edu............ ). Most of all what feminism says is that feminism is helping women's issues, and men having issues is a separate problem. 1. That is outright NOT equality, therefore this defense concedes that feminism is not a movement towards equality. 2. I would have no problem if it weren't for this one thing, that one thing is that feminism makes the problem worse. One major thing they do that hurts the movement towards equality is treat men like the abusive perpetrators and treat women as victims. This is blatantly shown when feminism talks about issues like domestic violence, rape and objectification. These are issues both men and women face, yet feminism treats men like the abusive perpetrators and they treat women as the victims. Sounds like a harmful stereotype to me. Feminists will try to shut down any who speak out against the movement or any who try to talk about men's issues. This is shown by women's studies professors telling their students to go protest against those who talk about men's issues. Here's a news report about feminists protesting people just talking and discussing male issues: https://www.youtube.com............ Now I understand not all feminists are like this. Some feminists truly believe in equality between the sexes, and I truly hope you are one of those people, pro. If you are one of those people who believe in true equality and consider themselves feminist then I believe you do not belong in the movement. You deserve better, therefore I would like to introduce you to an alternative to being a feminist. Being an egalitarian. Egalitarian: of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities. Now let me finish explaining why feminism is not a movement for equality by telling a story.The story of Earl Silverman. A video of one of his friends telling the story better than I ever could can be found here: https://www.youtube.com............ . But I doubt all of you are going to watch the whole video so let me tell the story myself. It all started when Earl left an abusive relationship where his wife abused him. He started looked for domestic abuse shelters to help him. Everywhere he went he found out that the shelters only help female victims. He did not find a shelter. As a result he decided to start his own shelter for male victims, for there are no shelters for them where he lived, Canada. He then followed researchers and those researchers found study after study showed that men were victims of domestic abuse too and how the government viewed domestic violence was outright wrong. (Female victim, male perpetration) He then saw that all of these studies were actively being ignored. He did his own investigation as to why this was. What he found was any study about gendered issues has to be approved by the Minister of the Status of Women has full veto power to any studies that would be published to publicly funded sites. If she denies any study for any reason the report stops at her desk. Later on he started requesting funding from the government. Everywhere he went he was denied funding because wherever he went no funding was offered towards male victims, even though there is funding for female victims. Seems a little sexist doesn't it? He then applied for a hearing in front of a Human's Rights council for sex discrimination. He was denied, over and over. He appealed over and over, and ended up facing two lawyers. After four years the final statement was made that because there were not equal male and female victims it isn't sex discrimination. Which obviously is not true. He then tried to get on public shows to talk about the issues he faces. He eventually was accepted to debate a feminist in public television. The feminist did not show up. In fact feminism created this whole mess with their distorted models and censorship. Next he eventually was so far in dept he could not run his shelter anymore. He was forced to shut down and sell the house. The day after he moved out Earl Silverman was found hanging by the neck in his garage. Earl Silverman had committed suicide. His suicide note can be found here: http://www.familyofmen.com............ In this note he says the reason he killed himself is to create a need for funding for male victims. He hoped with his death feminists would realize men can be victims too, and he hoped that maybe they would finally care. Feminism is responsible for his death. If feminism was for equality he would have got funding, male victims would be cared for. If feminism was for equality Earl SIlverman would be alive today. Feminism is not for equality. I rest my case.

Feminism is currently helping us reach gender equality in 1st world countries

Thank you for accepting this debate. Good luck. Now I have one request for you, read everything I have to say and consider it. Speaking to you as person to person I want this debate to act like a bridge to reach common ground and have everyone leave the debate with a better understanding of how the world is. Thank you in advance. Now let's begin. Let me open by introducing you to a fairly recent poll. ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com...... ). A total of 20% of Americans support feminism, despite this an overwhelming majority of 82% of Americans are in favor of equality between the sexes. The only logical explanation for this is people see feminist actions and they don't believe that feminism is for equality. Why do a vast majority of Americans believe in sex equality, but only a small majority of 20% of Americans support feminism? Well let me bring up a woman named Lauren Southern. Some time back she held up a sign saying "I don't need feminism because I believe in equality" ( https://www.youtube.com...... ) In this video she talks about how in the movement of feminism the only issues that are talked about are women's issues, on the other hand men's issues are outright ignored. She then talks about the many issues men face. This includes men actually being raped MORE than women in the U.S. if you take all rapes into account, including prison rape. ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk...... ) Next she talks about how men make up almost half of domestic abuse victims, but they do not receive any of the help that women have when they are victims. She also talks about how men make up 80% of suicide victims. ( http://www.avoiceformen.com...... ), 92% of workplace deaths ( http://amptoons.com...... ), 97% of combat deaths ( http://www.avoiceformen.com...... ) and 77% of homicide ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...... ). She also talks about how men go through many of the same problems women do that feminists complain about. This includes objectification, rape, and mistreatment, yet feminism acts like only women go through these things. That is not equality. Many of feminism's responses to this is that is that feminism is actually trying to help solve the issues men face. This is outright not true. When is the last time you've seen a protest that talks about very serious issues men face such as losing custody in 84% of divorces regardless of whether they can do a better job raising the child, despite their wives initiating the divorce 66% of the time. ( http://www.avoiceformen.com...... ). I have never seen nor heard of feminists protesting such an issue, therefore one can conclude that feminism does NOT help solve issues men face. Other feminists will say that these issues stem from stereotypes about men and women. I'm not going to deny this, however I will say that feminism is not helping at all. Many of these problems stem from women being seen as victims while men are seen as the abusive perpetrators, such as the domestic abuse problem I previously talked about. This stereotype also causes other issues such as men being 165% more likely to be convicted than women, men receiving 63% longer sentences than women for the exact same crime and studies finding that gender court bias against men is 6 times that of bias against race ( http://www.law.umich.edu...... ). Most of all what feminism says is that feminism is helping women's issues, and men having issues is a separate problem. 1. That is outright NOT equality, therefore this defense concedes that feminism is not a movement towards equality. 2. I would have no problem if it weren't for this one thing, that one thing is that feminism makes the problem worse. One major thing they do that hurts the movement towards equality is treat men like the abusive perpetrators and treat women as victims. This is blatantly shown when feminism talks about issues like domestic violence, rape and objectification. These are issues both men and women face, yet feminism treats men like the abusive perpetrators and they treat women as the victims. Sounds like a harmful stereotype to me. Feminists will try to shut down any who speak out against the movement or any who try to talk about men's issues. This is shown by women's studies professors telling their students to go protest against those who talk about men's issues. Here's a news report about feminists protesting people just talking and discussing male issues: https://www.youtube.com...... Now I understand not all feminists are like this. Some feminists truly believe in equality between the sexes, and I truly hope you are one of those people, pro. If you are one of those people who believe in true equality and consider themselves feminist then I believe you do not belong in the movement. You deserve better, therefore I would like to introduce you to an alternative to being a feminist. Being an egalitarian. Egalitarian: of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities. Now let me finish explaining why feminism is not a movement for equality by telling a story.The story of Earl Silverman. A video of one of his friends telling the story better than I ever could can be found here: https://www.youtube.com...... . But I doubt all of you are going to watch the whole video so let me tell the story myself. It all started when Earl left an abusive relationship where his wife abused him. He started looked for domestic abuse shelters to help him. Everywhere he went he found out that the shelters only help female victims. He did not find a shelter. As a result he decided to start his own shelter for male victims, for there are no shelters for them where he lived, Canada. He then followed researchers and those researchers found study after study showed that men were victims of domestic abuse too and how the government viewed domestic violence was outright wrong. (Female victim, male perpetration) He then saw that all of these studies were actively being ignored. He did his own investigation as to why this was. What he found was any study about gendered issues has to be approved by the Minister of the Status of Women has full veto power to any studies that would be published to publicly funded sites. If she denies any study for any reason the report stops at her desk. Later on he started requesting funding from the government. Everywhere he went he was denied funding because wherever he went no funding was offered towards male victims, even though there is funding for female victims. Seems a little sexist doesn't it? He then applied for a hearing in front of a Human's Rights council for sex discrimination. He was denied, over and over. He appealed over and over, and ended up facing two lawyers. After four years the final statement was made that because there were not equal male and female victims it isn't sex discrimination. Which obviously is not true. He then tried to get on public shows to talk about the issues he faces. He eventually was accepted to debate a feminist in public television. The feminist did not show up. In fact feminism created this whole mess with their distorted models and censorship. Next he eventually was so far in dept he could not run his shelter anymore. He was forced to shut down and sell the house. The day after he moved out Earl Silverman was found hanging by the neck in his garage. Earl Silverman had committed suicide. His suicide note can be found here: http://www.familyofmen.com...... In this note he says the reason he killed himself is to create a need for funding for male victims. He hoped with his death feminists would realize men can be victims too, and he hoped that maybe they would finally care. Feminism is responsible for his death. If feminism was for equality he would have got funding, male victims would be cared for. If feminism was for equality Earl SIlverman would be alive today. Feminism is not for equality. I rest my case.

Feminism is currently helping us reach gender equality in 1st world countries

Thank you for accepting this debate. Good luck. Now I have one request for you, read everything I have to say and consider it. Speaking to you as person to person I want this debate to act like a bridge to reach common ground and have everyone leave the debate with a better understanding of how the world is. Thank you in advance. Now let's begin. Let me open by introducing you to a fairly recent poll. ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com......... ). A total of 20% of Americans support feminism, despite this an overwhelming majority of 82% of Americans are in favor of equality between the sexes. The only logical explanation for this is people see feminist actions and they don't believe that feminism is for equality. Why do a vast majority of Americans believe in sex equality, but only a small majority of 20% of Americans support feminism? Well let me bring up a woman named Lauren Southern. Some time back she held up a sign saying "I don't need feminism because I believe in equality" ( https://www.youtube.com......... ) In this video she talks about how in the movement of feminism the only issues that are talked about are women's issues, on the other hand men's issues are outright ignored. She then talks about the many issues men face. This includes men actually being raped MORE than women in the U.S. if you take all rapes into account, including prison rape. ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk......... ) Next she talks about how men make up almost half of domestic abuse victims, but they do not receive any of the help that women have when they are victims. She also talks about how men make up 80% of suicide victims. ( http://www.avoiceformen.com......... ), 92% of workplace deaths ( http://amptoons.com......... ), 97% of combat deaths ( http://www.avoiceformen.com......... ) and 77% of homicide ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov......... ). She also talks about how men go through many of the same problems women do that feminists complain about. This includes objectification, rape, and mistreatment, yet feminism acts like only women go through these things. That is not equality. Many of feminism's responses to this is that is that feminism is actually trying to help solve the issues men face. This is outright not true. When is the last time you've seen a protest that talks about very serious issues men face such as losing custody in 84% of divorces regardless of whether they can do a better job raising the child, despite their wives initiating the divorce 66% of the time. ( http://www.avoiceformen.com......... ). I have never seen nor heard of feminists protesting such an issue, therefore one can conclude that feminism does NOT help solve issues men face. Other feminists will say that these issues stem from stereotypes about men and women. I'm not going to deny this, however I will say that feminism is not helping at all. Many of these problems stem from women being seen as victims while men are seen as the abusive perpetrators, such as the domestic abuse problem I previously talked about. This stereotype also causes other issues such as men being 165% more likely to be convicted than women, men receiving 63% longer sentences than women for the exact same crime and studies finding that gender court bias against men is 6 times that of bias against race ( http://www.law.umich.edu......... ). Most of all what feminism says is that feminism is helping women's issues, and men having issues is a separate problem. 1. That is outright NOT equality, therefore this defense concedes that feminism is not a movement towards equality. 2. I would have no problem if it weren't for this one thing, that one thing is that feminism makes the problem worse. One major thing they do that hurts the movement towards equality is treat men like the abusive perpetrators and treat women as victims. This is blatantly shown when feminism talks about issues like domestic violence, rape and objectification. These are issues both men and women face, yet feminism treats men like the abusive perpetrators and they treat women as the victims. Sounds like a harmful stereotype to me. Feminists will try to shut down any who speak out against the movement or any who try to talk about men's issues. This is shown by women's studies professors telling their students to go protest against those who talk about men's issues. Here's a news report about feminists protesting people just talking and discussing male issues: https://www.youtube.com......... Now I understand not all feminists are like this. Some feminists truly believe in equality between the sexes, and I truly hope you are one of those people, pro. If you are one of those people who believe in true equality and consider themselves feminist then I believe you do not belong in the movement. You deserve better, therefore I would like to introduce you to an alternative to being a feminist. Being an egalitarian. Egalitarian: of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities. Now let me finish explaining why feminism is not a movement for equality by telling a story.The story of Earl Silverman. A video of one of his friends telling the story better than I ever could can be found here: https://www.youtube.com......... . But I doubt all of you are going to watch the whole video so let me tell the story myself. It all started when Earl left an abusive relationship where his wife abused him. He started looked for domestic abuse shelters to help him. Everywhere he went he found out that the shelters only help female victims. He did not find a shelter. As a result he decided to start his own shelter for male victims, for there are no shelters for them where he lived, Canada. He then followed researchers and those researchers found study after study showed that men were victims of domestic abuse too and how the government viewed domestic violence was outright wrong. (Female victim, male perpetration) He then saw that all of these studies were actively being ignored. He did his own investigation as to why this was. What he found was any study about gendered issues has to be approved by the Minister of the Status of Women has full veto power to any studies that would be published to publicly funded sites. If she denies any study for any reason the report stops at her desk. Later on he started requesting funding from the government. Everywhere he went he was denied funding because wherever he went no funding was offered towards male victims, even though there is funding for female victims. Seems a little sexist doesn't it? He then applied for a hearing in front of a Human's Rights council for sex discrimination. He was denied, over and over. He appealed over and over, and ended up facing two lawyers. After four years the final statement was made that because there were not equal male and female victims it isn't sex discrimination. Which obviously is not true. He then tried to get on public shows to talk about the issues he faces. He eventually was accepted to debate a feminist in public television. The feminist did not show up. In fact feminism created this whole mess with their distorted models and censorship. Next he eventually was so far in dept he could not run his shelter anymore. He was forced to shut down and sell the house. The day after he moved out Earl Silverman was found hanging by the neck in his garage. Earl Silverman had committed suicide. His suicide note can be found here: http://www.familyofmen.com......... In this note he says the reason he killed himself is to create a need for funding for male victims. He hoped with his death feminists would realize men can be victims too, and he hoped that maybe they would finally care. Feminism is responsible for his death. If feminism was for equality he would have got funding, male victims would be cared for. If feminism was for equality Earl SIlverman would be alive today. Feminism is not for equality. I rest my case.

Feminism is currently helping us reach gender equality in 1st world countries

Thank you for accepting this debate. Good luck. Let me open by introducing you to a fairly recent poll. ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com... ). A total of 20% of Americans support feminism, despite this an overwhelming majority of 82% of Americans are in favor of equality between the sexes. The only logical explanation for this is people see feminist actions and they don't believe that feminism is for equality. Why do a vast majority of Americans believe in sex equality, but only a small majority of 20% of Americans support feminism? Well let me bring up a woman named Lauren Southern. Some time back she held up a sign saying "I don't need feminism because I believe in equality" ( ) In this video she talks about how in the movement of feminism the only issues that are talked about are women's issues, on the other hand men's issues are outright ignored. She then talks about the many issues men face. This includes men actually being raped MORE than women in the U.S. if you take all rapes into account, including prison rape. ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk... ) Next she talks about how men make up almost half of domestic abuse victims, but they do not receive any of the help that women have when they are victims. She also talks about how men make up 80% of suicide victims. ( http://www.avoiceformen.com... ), 92% of workplace deaths ( http://amptoons.com... ), 97% of combat deaths ( http://www.avoiceformen.com... ) and 77% of homicide ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov... ). She also talks about how men go through many of the same problems women do that feminists complain about. This includes objectification, rape, and mistreatment, yet feminism acts like only women go through these things. That is not equality. Many of feminism's responses to this is that is that feminism is actually trying to help solve the issues men face. This is outright not true. When is the last time you've seen a protest that talks about very serious issues men face such as losing custody in 84% of divorces regardless of whether they can do a better job raising the child, despite initiating the divorce 66% of the time. ( http://www.avoiceformen.com... ). I have never seen nor heard of feminists protesting such an issue, therefore one can conclude that feminism does NOT help solve issues men face. Other feminists will say that these issues stem from stereotypes about men and women. I'm not going to deny this, however I will say that feminism is not helping at all. Many of these problems stem from women being seen as victims while men are seen as the abusive perpetrators, such as the domestic abuse problem I previously talked about. This stereotype also causes other issues such as men being 165% more likely to be convicted than women, men receiving 63% longer sentences than women for the exact same crime and studies finding that gender court bias against men is 6 times that of bias against race ( http://www.law.umich.edu... ). Most of all what feminism says is that feminism is helping women's issues, and men having issues is a separate problem. 1. That is outright NOT equality, therefore this defense concedes that feminism is not a movement towards equality. 2. I would have no problem if it weren't for this one thing, that one thing is that feminism makes the problem worse. One major thing they do that hurts the movement towards equality is treat men like the abusive perpetrators and treat women as victims. This is blatantly shown when feminism talks about issues like domestic violence, rape and objectification. These are issues both men and women face, yet feminism treats men like the abusive perpetrators and they treat women as the victims. Sounds like a harmful stereotype to me. Feminists will try to shut down any who speak out against the movement or any who try to talk about men's issues. This is shown by women's studies professors telling their students to go protest against those who talk about men's issues. Here's a news report about feminists protesting people just talking and discussing male issues: Now I understand not all feminists are like this. Some feminists truly believe in equality between the sexes, and I truly hope you are one of those people, pro. If you are one of those people who believe in true equality and consider themselves feminist then I believe you do not belong in the movement. You deserve better, therefore I would like to introduce you to an alternative to being a feminist. Being an egalitarian. Egalitarian: of, relating to, or believing in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities. Now let me finish explaining why feminism is not a movement for equality by telling a story.The story of Earl Silverman. A video of one of his friends telling the story better than I ever could can be found here: . But I doubt all of you are going to watch the whole video so let me tell the story myself. It all started when Earl left an abusive relationship where his wife abused him. He started looked for domestic abuse shelters to help him. Everywhere he went he found out that the shelters only help female victims. He did not find a shelter. As a result he decided to start his own shelter for male victims, for there are no shelters for them where he lived, Canada. He then followed researchers and those researchers found study after study showed that men were victims of domestic abuse too and how the government viewed domestic violence was outright wrong. (Female victim, male perpetration) He then saw that all of these studies were actively being ignored. He did his own investigation as to why this was. What he found was any study about gendered issues has to be approved by the Minister of the Status of Women has full veto power to any studies that would be published to publicly funded sites. If she denies any study for any reason the report stops at her desk. Later on he started requesting funding from the government. Everywhere he went he was denied funding because wherever he went no funding was offered towards male victims, even though there is funding for female victims. Seems a little sexist doesn't it? He then applied for a hearing in front of a Human's Rights council for sex discrimination. He was denied, over and over. He appealed over and over, and ended up facing two lawyers. After four years the final statement was made that because there were not equal male and female victims it isn't sex discrimination. Which obviously is not true. He then tried to get on public shows to talk about the issues he faces. He eventually was accepted to debate a feminist in public television. The feminist did not show up. In fact feminism created this whole mess with their distorted models and censorship. Next he eventually was so far in dept he could not run his shelter anymore. He was forced to shut down and sell the house. The day after he moved out Earl Silverman was found hanging by the neck in his garage. Earl Silverman had committed suicide. His suicide note can be found here: http://www.familyofmen.com... In this note he says the reason he killed himself is to create a need for funding for male victims. He hoped with his death feminists would realize men can be victims too, and he hoped that maybe they would finally care. Feminism is responsible for his death. If feminism was for equality he would have got funding, male victims would be cared for. If feminism was for equality Earl SIlverman would be alive today. Feminism is not for equality. I rest my case.

First World Feminism in the USA

Now, let's refute his first book. "The Second Sex" was published in 1949. We all know that a lot has changed since then. The feminist movement of the 70's. Girls are now put on a throne. Refer to my videos. He uses his first book to refute this. This is just to prove that men are going their own way because of feminism. This isn't true. I implore the voters to actually watch video 2. Again, I implore the voters to watch the video and decide who's right. A lot of feminists are "professional victims" Please watch my other videos to understand what I mean. I'm so sorry my rebuttals are so short. I'm prepping for early college. Please watch the videos and decide for yourself. Have fun guys! :D

Feminism more like sexism or more like (Female supremacy).

Yes I have refuted my opponant's argument. Feminism is sexist the same way that a neurosurgeon is against cardiovascular health, and that is not at all. Feminism is sexist the same way that a neurosurgeon is against cardiovascular health, and that is not at all. Feminism just means that people focus on allowing women to be equal to men.