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Feminism is not sexist.

I thank my opponent for his second round of rebuttal. I would like to start by addressing my opponent's complaint that I neglected the 'women's right' part of the definition of feminism. While I grant that I did not downright say the words 'women's right' everytime I talked about equality, I thought that it was obviously implied. I do not see how someone can talk about equality in society without obviously referring to equal rights; the only things that society can actually change are human rights. So, to me, that was obvious, but I apologize to my opponent for the misunderstanding. Most of my opponent's arguments seem to be focused on convincing me that that the laws he presented (VAWA and Selective Service) are sexist, but my arguments had nothing to do with that. So, for the remainder of this debate, let's work under the assumption that I grant that these law are indeed sexist. Now, my arguments were focusing on the association that my opponent makes between these laws and feminism. My opponent claims that, since these laws treat women differently than men, they must be feminist in nature and therefore feminism must be sexist. As I said earlier, that is an unsupported association. According to the definition of feminism, a law could be considered feminist if it supports equal rights between men and women, not if it supports women in general. Does my opponent thinks that the VAWA and the Selective Service support the latter? If so, then they are not feminist. Therefore, pointing to these laws as a justification for claiming that feminism is sexist is unjustified. 'I agree that we are addressing the IDEA of feminism, however, rather than argue that the focus of Feminism on women's rights specifically is sexist, i chose to argue that the laws that are supported in order to give women equal rights in America is sexist.' The problem is that the laws my opponent has presented are not promoting EQUAL rights and therefore cannot be associated with feminism. My opponent then completely misunderstands my analogy, focusing on what atheism and feminism are rather than actually addressing my point which was basically that you cannot judge an ideology by its abuse and misuse (because then you are judging people, not the ideology), which is what my opponent seems to be doing with feminism. It has nothing to do with what atheism is. 'PRO tries rebuts my arguments by attempting to argue that since Feminism does not support the VAWA, it cannot be sexist' No... what I'm saying is that since feminism is not the support of the VAWA, one cannot point to this law to accuse feminism of being sexist. My opponent then tries to explain why he associates the VAWA with feminism, claiming that they both support women's rights. But my opponent is doing exactly what he accused me of doing; he is leaving out part of the definition of feminism, focusing on the 'women's rights' aspect and leaving out the 'equality of the sexes' aspect. Then my opponent goes on to explain how Selective Service is sexist which is, as I have said, irrelevant. 'The argument is not for prevention of the law, the argument is against misapplication of rights' I would ask my opponent to clarify what he means by 'misapplication of rights' so that I can answer this point. The analogy with taxes seems rather pointless. The conclusion I draw from this round is pretty similar to the one I drew for the last round; once again, my opponent is confusing the idea of feminism with some aspects of society that favor women. I do not have any CX question either.

Feminism

I thank my opponent for instigating this debate. Definition(s): 1. Feminism: "Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women."[1][2] Premise: There has been, and still is, a prejudice against certain people. These prejudices have resulted in much abuse, but the female sex has been abused, and mistreated more than many others. It was not until 1919 until women were allowed to vote, and were considered equal in the eyes of the law[3], it was only in 1993 that the United Nations first passed a resolution for the protection of women rights[4], and despite this even today women are abused, beaten, and have to face glass ceilings.[5] Stance: I will be advocating for Feminism as a positive philosophy where feminism is the belief that women, and men should be treated equally in all formal respects such as law, merit of job, education, et cetera. I will attempt to show that my opponent has a misguided understanding of feminism, and has no basis nor proof of the statistics he cites. I shall be presenting two positive line of arguments. 1. All Are Born Equal 2. Women Are Yet Mistreated LOA1: All Are Born Equal "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." -Declaration of Independence Even here the word "man" is used. This may seem to be a "free doctrine" when in fact here "man" is not gender neutral, and does not apply to dark skinned men, or women. In fact this only applied to white men. Even in one of the greatest documents of history, one finds prejudice. Though the document does get one thing right: that each person is born with inalienable rights, and all are equal. Including women, girls, or members of the femine gender. Women are also sentient creatures, and possess the same cognitive abilities, reasoning capacities, as men. Thus we asert that women are in fact equal to men, and it would be much perverted of our opponent to disagree and state that women are in any view "inferior" At this point we have won this debate. For so long as the belief that women and men are equal is prevalent the philosophy that they should be treated equally is naturally acceptable. That is truly what feminism is, not a doctrine which states that women are superior to men, or exactly the same (after all there are biological differences), but rather that women have the right to be treated equally in formal matters. They should be entitled to the same court benefits, the right to vote, the same education, the same salary, and the same treatment as men of equal caliber. I shall be giving my second line of argument, and my refutations in the following second round for lack of time. My internet connection was having issues, I apologize. [1]http://tinyurl.com... [2]http://tinyurl.com... [3]http://tinyurl.com... [4]http://tinyurl.com... [5]Ibidem -Theo

Feminism is Wrong

Open to anyone. Start the debate right away. He we gooo! Feminism in it's current form is a terrible sexist movement that needs to die a quick and painful death. First wave Feminism in it's current form is a terrible sexist movement that needs to die a quick and painful death. First wave feminism was about gaining equal rights. Second wave feminism was about gaining respect. Third wave intersectional feminism is not about those ideals. It is about making women superior to men.

Feminism is not sexist.

I thank my opponent for his rebuttal. My rebuttal will address both Round 2 and Round 3. My opponent started his rebuttal by accusing me of basing my argument on the definition of feminism... I plead guilty as charged, but I fail to see how this is a problem. My opponent then clarifies by saying that I excluded how feminism is applied in the real world. Let met be clear about something: if the topic of the debate was 'Sexism is sometimes used by people who consider themselves feminists', then I would have sided with Pro and there would be no debate. But the topic addresses the IDEA of feminism. Let me make an analogy to express this: Let's say the topic was 'Atheism is a violent ideology' and that I argued that atheism has nothing to do violence. Then my opponent's response would have been something like 'Well look at the Soviet Union who killed millions of people in the name of atheism'... The fact that someone used atheism as an excuse to do violent things does not mean that atheism is a violent ideology, in the same sense that people using feminism in a sexist way does not make feminism sexist. Now let's see what my opponent means when he says that feminism is sexist. In both Round 2 and Round 3 my opponent points to the VAWA to illustrate how feminism is sexist. Even if I was to concede that the VAWA is sexist, it is absolutely irrelevant to the topic of the debate; feminism is not 'the support of VAWA', pointing to a so-called sexist law (I would have to do more research to find out if it is actually sexist) does not make feminism sexist any way. In Round 2, my opponent accuses feminism of 'allowing the Draft and Selective Service to only affect men'. That is a pretty weak argument; saying that feminism is sexist because it did not do anything to prevent a certain law would make basically any ideology who did not say anything about it sexist as well. Atheism is not against that law either, is atheism sexist? 'Why do I bring up the Draft and Selective Service? I bring it up because Feminism is supposedly a movement to support gender equality, but it chooses to only support those things that benefit women (voting), over those things that would harm them (compulsory public service). While i would not suggest women should be conscripted when the need arises, I am arguing that there should be a similar system by which women must buy their right to vote.' I am really having trouble understanding what my opponent means, is he saying that women should invent a useless law just to make sure that they have something to do before they can vote? 'PRO also argues that feminism is the key to eliminating stereotypes. I am not convinced. Even basic stereotypes against women carry a corollary stereotype against men.' I agree with the last part, but how is that an argument in favor of my opponent? Wouldn't getting rid of stereotypes against women also rid us of some stereotypes against men? In a nut shell, Con's argument is that since there are some aspects in society that favor women, feminism must be sexist. That is a non-sequitur and an unfair association. I hope that my opponent can provide me with adequate evidence that supports the assertion that feminism is sexist.

Feminism

I accept your challenge, And I know this is truly going to be a challenge. I will argue that feminism is good to a point. That point being paternity leave for either parent, Equal opportunities in ALL FIELDS, Draft reform focusing around families and relationships protections, Equal treatment in the streets (such as: rape jokes are bad no matter who is the subject) and finally, Proven reasons for a gap in wage or no gap at all. I am against some feminism, Primarily the radicals, The 'victims' and the idiots. Women should be exactly equal to men. If you have lower wage and work less, Work harder for a better wage. I want to admit, I am a noob, And I do not have a history of using sources, But I will do my best. Also, For clarification, "In all forms" do you mean including women's suffrage? Here we go. . .

Feminism

That is not only sexist, but also wrong. We still live in a world where women are not paid as much as men. We still live in a world where women are victims of rape. Not a few of them, not tens or hundreds of them, but thousands upon thousands. We still live in a world where single mothers are denied jobs and looked down upon, and when they do find a way to support their children, they are still judged by the society they are members of. So what do you want women to do? Stop fighting for what we deserve? Equal pay, respect, safety, the ability to live our lives the way we want to? There are countless examples of instances, laws, and events that still undermine women's rights in the present. Women deserve to live as equals to men and feminism is how that equality is created. Feminism is not poisoning the minds of women, hostility and fear are poisoning the minds of people like you. Being a feminist does not mean hating men, or using violence and hatred to break those who are not feminists apart. Being a feminist is simple; it is actively advocating for the rights of women. Feminism is what allowed for people like Malala Yousafzai to liberate herself from oppression and not only receive an education, but a voice that affected millions of young girls worldwide. Feminism allowed Oprah Winfrey to become one of the most successful American entrepreneurs in history and create an empire that charitable and ethical. For crying out loud, simply google famous feminists and you will find not only some of the most impressive women in history, but some of the most ridiculous obstacles placed in their way. Modern feminism is just as important as feminism of, say, the suffrage era. When will we ever be truly equal if people can say things like "Good is good enough, the wage gap isn't that big" or when politicians can make blatantly offensive comments directed at the female gender and not be held accountable? It may seem like there is no need for the fight to continue, and that women are where they want to be, but that is false. That is one of the reasons I imagine you would begin this debate; because you do not believe it is necessary. The second reason is that you possibly have had a bad experience with a feminist. With every philosophical group, especially groups related to theology, there are always sub groups referred to as extremists. The most notable example being Islamic extremists such as ISIS, who aren't even correctly identified seeing as they do not practice that faith in it's essence. The point is, not every Muslim is a terrorist in the same way not every feminist is a male hating, propaganda spewing monster that many men claim them to be. There will always be people who mis represent the groups they are associated with, but if we continue to react violently and curse what the group stands for on the basis of a fraction of their supporters, we will all lose. The third and final reason I would guess this turned into a debate is that you are sexist, and I really hope this is not the case. Because I know for a fact you have or have had a woman in your life; a mother at least, possibly a sister, aunt, cousin, friend, girlfriend, whoever. And I know that you probably love this (or these) women and would hate to see them trampled on by the community they live in. So what I'm really saying is, if you believe like I do that they deserve to be treated and seen as the beautiful, strong, and independent people they are by the rest of the world, then you too are a feminist.