• CON

    If you listen he tells you of other developments, like...

    Global Warming is real

    I refer back to 2nd link of temperatures staying the same, it shows a more expanded view of temperatures up to 2010 2.I refer back to the linked video but here's the fallow up video that would explain allot of your questions. If you listen he tells you of other developments, like how, yes, arctic ice seems to be melting but Antarctic ice sheet is growing. I'll restate this here, its not that climate "change" is not real, it is global "warming" is simply not happening anymore and were currently facing a global cooling. Fallow up video: - Antartic sheet expanding Sources: http://nsidc.org... http://www.csmonitor.com... http://www.skepticalscience.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Global-Warming-is-real/7/
  • CON

    Unless the creators of this graph have somehow managed to...

    Ice Ages versus Man Made Climate Change.

    "In the previous graph which covers 450,000 years, we see the exact same relationship between Co2 and temperature" This statement is false. In the graph of graph of 450000 years and the graph of 1850-present the relationship between CO2 is different. What's different is that CO2 and temperature start rising simultaneously when before they didn't. It's also interesting to note that the"unimportant" perfluorotributylamine gas started to be produced in the Mid-20th century is only a decade or two off of the time when global temperatures started rising more drastically. The last peak is actually quite different. It shows that the temperature started to rise less rapidly and then it suddenly started rising at a much higher rate when you look at it closer up in the 2nd graph. "The final graph provided by Con shows a speculative difference between our current measured temperature and then the "blue line" shows what would have happened with "NO HUMAN INFLUENCE". This is pure speculation and has zero bearing on reality. Unless the creators of this graph have somehow managed to visit a parallel universe where Earth has no human inhabitants, this graph should be disregarded entirely because it is pure fiction. This is a big part of the problem with Global warming science, many of these exaggerated claims like this last graph are based on nothing but speculation." Actually this graph is not pure speculation. This graph was created from data taken from a supercomputer which modeled the climate using all available knowledge. So it should be taken quite seriously. In addition the red line so closely following the actual temperature is good evidence that it is not pure fiction or speculation and is actually likely to be quite reliable.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Ice-Ages-versus-Man-Made-Climate-Change./1/
  • PRO

    1] Why were the predictions so confident back then. ......

    Global climate change should not be a major factor in US energy policy

    Thanks to Con for accepting this debate. The resolution covers many issues, and that will make it difficult to discuss comprehensively. The virtue is that it exposes how many assumptions are stacked to get to the present policies of heavily subsidizing uneconomic green energy and discouraging the exploitation of fossil fuels. 1. Increasing warmth and CO2 are most likely beneficial The average temperature of the earth has risen about 1 degree C in the past hundred years. [1] The earth was much warmer than the present during the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) about a thousand years ago. [2] That's when Greenland was actually green and grapes grew in Scotland. The MWP was a prosperous time in human history because the growing season was longer in the temperate zone. Temperatures were warmer still during the Holocene Maximum, 5,000 to 8,000 years ago. That is when the great civilizations of the world began in China, India, and the Middle East. It was another very prosperous time. Going back in geological time, earth is currently none of the lowest points of both temperature and atmospheric CO2 concentrations. [3] The current average global temperature is about 14.5 C (58 F). [4] For most of the period of the evolution of life forms, average global temperature was around 22 C. Life flourished. CO2 levels are now around 380 ppm, less than a tenth of early levels. [3] The main depletion of CO2 is from the microscopic skeletons of plankton capturing the CO2 in carbonates which end up in limestone at the bottoms of the oceans. Because plants evolved in conditions of high CO2, they are now relatively starved. Commercial greenhouse operators artificially raise CO2 to about double current atmospheric levels, There are a few exceptions, but nearly all plant species grow faster at higher CO2 levels. This fact is supported a vast number of peer reviewed studies. More plant growth means more food, and that's good. Humans adapt much more readily to warmer climates than cold. [6] That's apparent from the distribution of human populations. The same is true of animal species. Of course, there are extremes that cannot be tolerated, but the climate change controversy is mostly about CO2 causing changes of 1 - 4 degrees C. Warmer is better. The largest disadvantage of warmth is the rise in sea level. The latest IPCC report predicts and expected rise of nine inches in the next hundred years. 2. Climate predictions are unreliable The global warming panic peaked around 2000, when confident predictions were made that the world would fry by the year 2010. In the decade since then, the world has actually cooled. [1] Why were the predictions so confident back then. The logic was as follows: (a) the earth warmed substantially from 1980 to 2000, (b) CO2 increased during that period, (c) all other factors affecting climate had been accounted for -- it wasn't the sun, volcanoes, changes in the earth orbit or anything else, (d) therefore CO2 caused the warming. The physics of CO2 alone did not explain the warming, so a multiplying effect was hypothesized and the multiplier was found to be high. About two-dozen computer models using various models built on the same principles were used to predict the decade of 2001-2010. What actually occurred was below the error band of all the model predictions. [7] One factor that was omitted was the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, a roughly-60 year cycle that peaked in the 1880s, 1930s, and 2000s, producing widespread melting of Arctic Ice at each peak. Taking the PDO into account, many now predict we are in for two or three decades of cooling. [7. 8] Last month, I attended a pitch for M.I.T.'s new effort to rebuild climate science into something reliable. [9] The prof started by saying, "I just returned from a week-long conference at Princeton. We all agreed on two things: the troposphere is warming, and we don't know why." For example, a critical element in climate models is the rate of energy transfer between the ocean surface and the atmosphere. Recent work suggests the previous assumptions are off by a factor of ten or twenty. There are many other known deficiencies. Because climate models have been proven wrong, and wrong in the direction of wildly exaggerating CO2 effects, they should not be used a basis for public policy. We should continue research until the models prove reliable. 3. Fossil fuel restrictions in the US will have little effect Let's suppose for a moment that CO2 alarmists are correct in worrying about CO2 increases. China has 23% of the CO2 emissions, the us 18%. However, the Chinese are increasing consumption at 11% per year, while the US is about stable. World consumption is growing at 5.6%, with most of the growth in developing countries. Per capita consumption in China is a quarter that of the US. India is about 1/30. There is no possibility that China, India, and the developing world are going to stay in poverty over fear of global warming. Let's suppose the US cut it's CO2 emissions in half. Because the US population centers cover a large area, transportation needs are much greater than countries where the population is concentrated, so its a lot harder to cut energy use. If the US cut by half, India and China can be expected to grow rapidly. Their populations are now about eight times that of the US, their populations are growing faster, and they want to to advance their standard of living to US levels. The US's 18% of emissions will probably be less than 6% of the world total in 50 years. If we took drastic cuts, it might be 3%. Temperature is proportional to the logarithm of CO2 concentration. If the temperature rise were 1 degree, our policy of draconian cuts would be reduce the rise by 0.026 degree, That's negligible. There is no point in it. 4. Attempts to significantly cut CO2 would cost trillions of dollars Any measure that reduces CO2 and also cuts costs will be adopted by free markets independent of government policy. For example, fluorescent light bulbs and hybrid cars save money, so people are adopting them without a government policy forcing it. Forcing it costs an enormous amount of money. For example, there are 250 million passenger cars in the US. Replacing them with $25K hybrid vehicles would cost That's $6,5 trillion. Going to $40K electric cars would be $10 trillion. All the cars would ordinarily be replaced eventually, in about 20 years. Advancing that to replace them faster costs an amount proportional to the total. When the capital, backup, distribution costs are counted, wind power costs about five times as much as conventional power and solar power about seven times as much. Hence the green upgrade is the cost to replace all the power plants in the country, times about six. The UX needs about 900,000 megawatt. [12] A new 300 megawatt coal plant is roughly $1 billion. [13] A green energy upgrade would be about $18 trillion. On the other side of the ledger, the US has about $300 trillion worth of fossil fuels that would become worthless. [14] The GDP is $14 trillion. We cannot afford the costs, so the policy would fail. --------------------- 1. http://www.theregister.co.uk... 2. http://www.geocraft.com... 3. http://www.geocraft.com... 4. http://www.currentresults.com... 5, http://www.co2science.org... 6. http://anthro.palomar.edu... 7. http://clivebest.com... 8. http://notrickszone.com... 9. http://paoc2001.mit.edu... 10. http://www.thegwpf.org... 11. http://factspluslogic.com... 12. http://www.eia.gov... 13. http://www.jsonline.com... 14. http://factspluslogic.com...

  • CON

    This is a severe misconception, It doesn’t require an...

    The climate is not "a changing".

    On the IPCC I have been provided no actual evidence for the IPCC evaluating the sources I used prior to the data’s submission. This will remain a red herring until you can prove that the IPCC must analyze all climate change information information before it’s published. It would also be acceptable if you prove they analyzed the data I used as sources. His two sources (listed in the comments) agree that they analyze all their own data before they submit it, But that much is obvious. He has so far provided 2 sources, Both which contradict him in several areas, And support my own position (that the IPCC is not relevant to NASA’s data collection system(s)). [8][9] – His sources, In comments Rebuttal Con presents Murry Salby without actually listing a paper, Quote, Or citation. This is an argument from authority and irrelevant to me. If you are going to state someone refutes something, Show his research and papers specifically that you believe supports such an assertion. Quote: “It"s not just that man-made emissions don"t control the climate, They don"t even control global CO2 levels. ” This is a severe misconception, It doesn’t require an expansive amount of increase to offset the natural balance of the global carbon cycle. Altough our output of 25-30 gigatons of CO2 is tiny relative to the 750 gigatons moving through the Oceans, It will add up because the land cannot properly absorb this additional CO2 naturally. Because of the above, The current CO2 levels are at the highest level in 15-20 million years. [7] Quote: “CO2 variations do not correlate with man-made emissions. Peaks and falls correlate with hot years (e. G. 1998) and cold years (1991-92). ” I never denied yearly fluctuations, But the mean temperature is increasing drastically and has been since the industrial revolution. On rising sea levels All the worlds oceans are connected, But sea level is influenced by things such as gravity, Currents, And wind. There is also, The fact that land also shifts gradually over time. The truth is that Japan has seen sea level rise, Just less extreme comparative to some other continents. There are several islands that have just completely disappeared in Micronesia. This is a simple proof that sea level is rising, And that islands are decreasing in size. Depending on the height of the island, These changes will be more noticeable/extreme. Defense Quote: “Muana Loa is a volcano. Thus, Could you trust a CO2 measurement taken from the top of a volcano? ” Go to the next tab over, The Global averages – that was the intended source. In defense of NASA I would imagine the sun is the only driver of the Earth’s climate, Isn’t that blatantly obvious? The greenhouse effect is where radiation (from the sun) is reflected by the atmosphere. Without the Sun we wouldn’t be alive, So I presume the article was just removed due to it being misleading. “NASA Science said things like clouds, Albedo and aerosol behaviour can have more powerful cooling effects that outdo the warming effect of CO2. ” Perhaps, But this isn’t likely, Especially if we continue the exponential increase of our CO2 production. This is what I mean by misleading, It’s possible certainly, But nothing we should rely upon to save us. Sources on profile

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/The-climate-is-not-a-changing-./1/
  • CON

    This all i have to say to win here. ... Look at the...

    Human caused climate change is total nonsense

    This all i have to say to win here. Look at the evidence by real scientists, Credible sources, It all backs me up, There, I won

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Human-caused-climate-change-is-total-nonsense/1/
  • CON

    It has become a new and fashionable way of attacking...

    Climate Change is the end of the world

    NO. It has become a new and fashionable way of attacking capitalism

  • PRO

    We should reduce our use of fossil fuels anyway

    Climate Change is the end of the world

    We should reduce our use of fossil fuels anyway

  • CON

    Humankind has the ability to deal with it later

    Climate Change is the end of the world

    Humankind has the ability to deal with it later

  • PRO

    The significant bulk of scientific research says it is...

    Climate Change is the end of the world

    The significant bulk of scientific research says it is happening