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Feminism Does Not Equal Hate for Me

As I said previously feminism has helped the world but it's evolved into a hateful thing.

Modern Feminism is utterly useless!

I'll argue that modern feminism is utterly useless in today's day and age. You'll argue otherwise! Round 1 = Acceptance only Round 2 = Opening arguments/Rebuttals Round 3 = Rebuttals only and closing statements (no new args)

American Feminism is Going too Far

There are actually plenty of males that consider themselvs feminist. Feminism is, by definition, "the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities" [3]. It's not exclusive to women in any way. I believe that everybody should be equal. "Any one of Henry VIII's wives could have stabbed him in his sleep but they didn't. They didn't fight for freedom." I love that example of Henry VIII because it is so completely ignorant of the fact that one cannot simply kill a king. Yes technically his wives could have murdered him in his sleep, but they would have been executed for it. Even if they escaped, where would they go? Everything they ever knew was in that city, and the open road was extremely dangerous for women who traveled alone. Plus even if they made it to another city what would they do? Guards would surely go searching for them. Women have been subjugated and oppressed for millennia. Was it women that banned the education of women? No, of course it wasn't. It wasn't women that chose not give themselves the right to vote. The idea that women put themselves into this position is inane. One should not have to earn equal rights. They should be given to them no matter what. "No company owner is stupid enough to drive away a huge influential force in his business just because she's a woman." I'm not just talking about being fired or not being given an opportunity because somebody is a woman. I'm also referring to sexual harassment. 64% of women scientists claim to have been either sexually harassed or assaulted while in the field [5]. They should have to deal with that, and that is why I love that example of Henry VIII because it is so completely ignorant of the fact that one cannot simply kill a king. Yes technically his wives could have murdered him in his sleep, but they would have been executed for it. Even if they escaped, where would they go? Everything they ever knew was in that city, and the open road was extremely dangerous for women who traveled alone. Plus even if they made it to another city what would they do? Guards would surely go searching for them. Women have been subjugated and oppressed for millennia. Was it women that banned the education of women? No, of course it wasn't. It wasn't women that chose not give themselves the right to vote. The idea that women put themselves into this position is inane. One should not have to earn equal rights. They should be given to them no matter what. "No company owner is stupid enough to drive away a huge influential force in his business just because she's a woman." I'm not just talking about being fired or not being given an opportunity because somebody is a woman. I'm also referring to sexual harassment. 64% of women scientists claim to have been either sexually harassed or assaulted while in the field [5]. They should have to deal with that, and that is why feminism in the US is still necessary. --- If equal pay for equal work is the only legitimate gripe Pro has about American Feminism, then I don't believe that she has met the burden of proof that it has gone "too far". Feminism isn't just about fair pay. It's also about abortion, contraceptive use, ending discrimination in academia, ending sexual harassment and sexual assault. These are all noble causes. [3] http://www.merriam-webster.com... [4] http://www.businessinsider.com... [5] http://www.washingtonpost.com...

is feminism good for the world

when you say feminism has worked (as in first and second wave) i agree but now we are all equal. Men and women are not payed differently for the same wage. This is because the statistics you look to use a large number of people in "similar" but not equal jobs and find a difference since different jobs pay different amounts of money even in similar fields. Also, there are other reasons women (on average) are payed less like pregnancy, staying with the young child and differences in behavior (like being less likely to ask for a raise.) If there was a giant patriarchy paying women less why would anyone hire men? If companies could get away with a cheeper wage why wouldn't they. Proof of this is the move to work in China because labor is cheap there. 3rd wave feminism has not helped women all over the world if it did it would get rights for women in India and Saudi Arabia not worry about man-spreading and "a pink tax." Less qualified women will get into S.T.E.M. fields more than there more qualified male counterparts because the business wants to even out the gender group in a work place. This is indisputable since there are many statistics that show this and since they do the same for non-white and non-asian people.

Modern Feminism is Necessary

Thanks, Diet. Victim Blaming "I don't know a feminist or even just a woman out there that doesn't agree that women need to minimize risk of sexual assault..." Here's 8,000+ [1] in Toronto alone. What the 'Slut Walk' teaches women is that they should not have to take precautions to avoid harmful situations, and instead rely on all men on Earth collectively deciding to stop doing bad things to women. The feminists who promote the Slut Walk have sort of good intentions, but portray it in a harmful way, and the primary victims of the messages feminists present are other women. It's a nice idea - not living in a world where we have to be careful of other people - but that is far from reality, and if it ever becomes a reality, it won't be any time in the near future. Bad people will always exist. The average time spent in prison for men who commit rape is 65 months, whereas the average time spent in prison for men who commit murder is 71 months [2]. This shows that rape is taken extremely seriously, and results in prison sentences that are on average just 6 months shorter than that when you kill somebody. The feminists that take part in the slut walk seem to think rape is trivialized and not taken seriously. Well, if you spend almost the same amount of time in prison as someone who has ended the life of someone else, which is arguably the worst type of crime, then yes, it's taken very damn seriously. But wait - rapists actually spend more time in prison than people who have committed manslaughter [3]. So they actually spend more time in prison than someone who has killed somebody. To say, after seeing these facts, that rape is not taken seriously, is ridiculous. But back to minimalizing risks of sexual assault. Here is a page that has over 11,000 shares on Facebook, which talks about how dumb it is to take precautions to avoid dangerous situations [4]. This article practically demonizes people who suggest reasonable, logical ways for women to avoid being raped. And keep in mind, it has over 11,000 shares on Facebook, meaning there are 11,000+ people who believe women shouldn't have to take precautions to avoid danger, and instead should shift all the focus on "teaching men not to rape." Here [5] is a feminist/woman telling men not to rape women in 50 different ways. At the beginning of her enlightening post, she says she would send this around as an email, and that safety experts should teach this, instead of teaching women to be safe and take care of themselves. And the replies are all other feminists/women agreeing that this should be passed around as an email. Because we all know simply saying "don't do this" will stop someone from doing it. My point is that taking all responsibility off women, and assuming that simply by "telling men not to rape," we will end rape, is ridiculous, and detrimental to the safety of women. The majority of feminists are on board with this idea. And like I said before, it's not so much the words of the group, but how they present themselves. I believe my point about the length of rape sentences should nullify your point that rape cases aren't taken seriously. The unfortunate part about rape is that it's incredibly hard to prove. And unfortunately again, we can't change the law to be "guilty until proven innocent," as that's just illogical and can/will lead to an incredible amount of innocent people in jail/prison. It is a fact that some people (not just women) will regret sleeping with someone, so they claim they were raped. It's just in human nature to try and avoid making yourself look bad. I'm not saying there are a lot of false rape cases, but it does happen, and to ignore this is ridiculous. And the women actually aren't "demeaned" for their style of clothing if they claim they were raped or sexually assaulted - what really happens is common criminal practice. When someone claims to be a victim of something, the police or people around ask questions to see if it could have been prevented. I was mugged when I was in grade 10, and the very first thing the police asked was "what were you wearing"? Do I claim they are blaming me? Do I say this is misandry? No, I tell them what I was wearing so they can get more information, and so they can give me advice on how to avoid bad situations. Making it a bad thing when women are given ways to avoid dangerous situations is dangerous to women - something feminists want to avoid. Fancy that. Finally, whether or not believing in the wage gap was an "honest mistake," it is still untrue, and it still spread like wildfire in the feminist community. I'm still told a reason feminism is needed is because men are paid 23 cents more than women for the same job. If it isn't a lie, it's wrong, and spreading incorrect ideas is obviously detrimental. Feminists still cling to the idea that the wage gap is true. It's good that you believe it's false, but a lot of feminists believe it's true, and go out of their way (equal pay day) to fight for equal pay, even though they already have it. Men I'm starting to think you aren't reading what I'm saying. I already addressed this point, and you already said it. So refer to my "masculinity" paragraph in the previous round. However I see you brought up a new point. "...Young boys ... Don't have such pressure on them to play sports and be athletic." So you honestly think not trying to keep (people in general) athletic and fit is a good thing? You, a feminist, are claiming that it's good that boys aren't pressured to stay athletic. This is another reason feminism is detrimental. It's too focused on "absolute equality and treatment" to care for the health and well-being of the very people it is trying to help. Being athletic isn't a "gender role," it's common sense and good for your health. If feminists were so concerned about men's "depression, drug or alcohol abuse, extreme anger, and PTSD," they would be finding ways to combat this. It is now acceptable for men to show their emotions, and I honestly can't remember a time in my life where someone made fun of me for crying or being upset about something. So even if feminism helped at a time with this, much like women's right to vote, work, etc. feminism is no longer necessary to help with this "problem." And if it was, the feminists saying "I bathe in male tears" sure as hell doesn't help. The picture to the right received 650+ likes, and 160+ retweets [6]. So there are hundreds of women that enjoy another woman who wears a shirt basically making fun of men who cry. And if you've been around the internet at all, you'd see there are also mugs that have this saying that self-proclaimed feminists drink out of. Oh, and here's another example of the incredible double-standard that feminists have. Feminists claim not to judge someone by how they dress. Yet they went absolute apesh*t on this guy for how he dressed [7]. This guy landed a friggin satellite on an asteroid, and feminists/women are too concerned about his shirt to care that he's made a major leap in the scientific industry. And you still think feminism is beneficial? It's literally halting scientific exploration because they're judging the way someone is dressed... something they claim to be against. Anyway, good point about the kid not growing up gay, I didn't mean he would just "turn gay," I meant he would be confused, as most boys don't play with dolls etc. But that's fair. However, he will still be picked on because he is playing with "girly" toys, and dressing "girly." What's more important, political correctness, or the well-being of your son? My four year old (assuming I had one) wouldn't care if he couldn't play with dolls or not, but what he would care about is being picked on and bullied for playing with something I'm inviting him to play with. I'd rather my son is happy and does the same thing as other boys, than unhappy. I also see you didn't argue against the "1 in 3" thing I brought up. Etc. Ignoring the "combating gender roles" thing, what exactly has feminism done to help men's rape and sexual assault? Can you provide a link to a feminist page or a page showing what feminism has actually done to help male victims of rape, or to stop rape against men? "Attitudes shifting" and actual precautions or measures being put on place to stop these things from happening or helping victims are completely different things. It's great that good men and women now view rape seriously. But there's still an issue with the bad men and women. How exactly is feminism going to stop people from being bad? Like I said before (and if I haven't, I'll say it now), feminism has done a lot of good in the past. My point is that feminism is no longer needed. Bad stuff happening can be combated by the law and good, decent people, not by a group of women bleeding all over themselves [8]. But all joking aside, feminists are fighting for women's rights, not for men to be safer on the streets and prisons and wherever else. Like I asked before, if you could provide something that shows feminism is currently (or is needed in order to) helping men (in more ways than making it normal for boys to play with dolls), I'll happily argue against those. Most people understand feminism has a negative connotation, so why not go the route of egalitarianism? This site doesn't recognize "misandry" to be a word. This is sexism against men. Sources [1] https://twitter.com... [2] http://www.bjs.gov... [3] http://www.theguardian.com... [4] http://thinkprogress.org... [5] http://www.girl-mom.com... [6] https://twitter.com... [7] http://www.cnn.com... [8] http://modernwomandigest.com...

Third Wave Feminism

First of all, please dont join this debate if you have any type of bias or get easily offended, this is supposed to be a respectful debate: I dont think that third wave feminism is actually a movement pro-equal rights, and I'm gladly willing to debate it

feminism is not correlated to gender equality.

First and second wave feminism were legitimate movements. Women deserve dignity and political equality. Third wave feminists want freedom without responsibility. They want preferential treatment for women while recasting female responsibility as systemic oppression. They want women to be dependent"not on men, but on the State. Of course, this is an outrageously misogynistic worldview. Despite literally millions of examples to the contrary, feminists simply presume that women can"t fend for themselves in a free society. Their agenda looks something like this: Free birth control Free abortions Maternity leave with raises and promotions (men can"t be permitted to earn more) The right to consider men guilty until proven innocent (abolition of due process) Bans on anti-feminist speech (and jail time for offenders like Milo Yiannopoulos) Do these sound like valid rights or nanny state privileges for presumed weaklings? Feminism is a misnomer. The movement has been infected with social justice disorder. If you doubt this, skim through a few feminist blogs. You"ll notice that before making an argument, the authors apologize for being straight, white, able-bodied, etc. Feeling shame for one"s existence or biological makeup isn"t natural; it"s a symptom of mental illness.

Do We Need Feminism? YES We Do

Firstly we need a clarification on if radical Feminism comes under your term of Feminism, as you have proposed a contradiction to yourself, as you claim to believe for this debate feminism is believing in gender equality yet you ask if it is "Men-hating". This would be impossible to have a con for due to the contradiction, as you require me to argue the term "Feminist" under your definition. Next clarification is I need to know your main points for the feminist movement, such as " Gender pay gap" or there being a "rape culture" within the school environment, clarify these points please to create a case to argue against and I shall debate.