• CON

    I would point out that the claim that men work more than...

    The west doesn't need feminism, it needs to move

    I would point out that the claim that men work more than women is not true. At least according to some of the facts and figures out there. For example, http://time.com... I agree that men are also victims of crime and in bigger numbers. This is not an argument against feminism though. Could it not just be arguing that as well as feminism other groups need to campaign or feminism needs to expand what it focuses on, etc. The school situation may vary. Girls have been suspended as well for violence.

  • PRO

    I think feminism is used against men and is insane. ......

    Feminism is used against men.

    I think feminism is used against men and is insane. My opponent (obviously) will think the opposite. After an opponent has been chosen, we both will come up with rules. 4 rounds (1 acceptance round) translates to 3 rounds.

  • CON

    I accept your challenge, pro. ... Feminism is clearly...

    Feminism should end.

    I accept your challenge, pro. Feminism is clearly still needed as we can see from rampant rape culture and dumb kids like you undermining the struggle of living as a woman.

  • PRO

    Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies...

    Feminism will lead to world changes

    Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. Patriarchy has been existed for many years and now it's matriarchy time. I believe that women will change the world for better.

  • CON

    Well I don't plan on having to rely on a sited source...

    Feminism is ruining video games

    Dearest apologies to my opponent for my forfeiture. It being Christmas time, I was lazy in my checking this site. I quite simply forgot to post my previous argument. Voters, please factor this into your consideration for the debate. It was unprofessional and deserves to be penalized in the conduct section. Since this is the final round, I shall refrain from posting any new arguments and instead sum up why I deserve to win this debate. Throughout his arguments, my opponent has provided arguments based more on his own personal bias against changes made in certain video games he favors than on accredited data. He even goes as far as to admit this, saying “You say I am making assumptions without any hard data or articles to back it up. Well I don't plan on having to rely on a sited source because I don't need to. Some things are just felt and seen by people who have a love for the medium.” Because of this, my opponent has failed to prove his point. My opponent has yet to prove any changed came from Well I don't plan on having to rely on a sited source because I don't need to. Some things are just felt and seen by people who have a love for the medium.” Because of this, my opponent has failed to prove his point. My opponent has yet to prove any changed came from Some things are just felt and seen by people who have a love for the medium.” Because of this, my opponent has failed to prove his point. My opponent has yet to prove any changed came from feminism, therefore, he has yet to prove that feminism is ruing video games. And, to briefly restate my main argument, I’ve still yet to see what games have been ruined based on changes stemmed from feminism. The truth is that more people are finding that females are just as capable in hero roles. While this may negatively affect a few games that have strictly masculine lore connected to it, it is not ruining video games in their entirety. Therefore, I urge you to vote Con on this debate. Thanks to my opponent for a well argued, very engaging debate. Once again, I apologize for my forfeiture. Have a great holiday season, and a happy New Year!

  • CON

    So again, If I walked outside, Shot someone, And then...

    Feminism

    I would like to remind my opponent that the last round isn't the time for a revelation. "The absurdity of that response means that you have no rebuttal for my point worth anyone's time. " - It really isn't absurd, You were implying most achievements done under the umbrella of feminism were historically feminist. So again, If I walked outside, Shot someone, And then claimed it was a feminist action, Would it be? Under your usage of the term it would be, But under mine it isn't. "Name one time outside of the MeToo movement where committing a crime against someone who never wronged you because you have newfound power has been justified. Yes" - It is certainly not 'silly' in any manner. You asked for a single example outside the MeToo movement itself of such a thing: Malik St. Hilaire is one, The accuser is facing little to no prison time and seemingly no social repercussions from the left-wing. "You stating that there's a hierarchy means that women are not currently socially equal to men, Which supports many of my points. Including the fact that if there was a more even "Hierarchy" women would be mating all directions on the hierarchy, Same as men, And becoming more individual people who can express themselves and love who they want. " - No, Women are biologically preconditioned to do this; it's an evolved behaviour. There isn't just "a" hierarchy either, There is a great many. A simply as possible, The male-female dominance hierarchy consists of males butting heads and women picking the 'winners. ' Females have their own dominance hierarchy as well, But it hardly matters for this discussion. - Most relevant studies indicate that 80% of women pursue the top 20% of men. And 80% of men pursue 20% of women. The way societies traditionally balance out hypergamy and polygamy is through monogamy and stigma. If we simply disregard traditional institutions and values society will become ultra-violent and destroy itself within the course of a few generations. Source on my profile.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Feminism/34/
  • PRO

    Firstly you say that women and men are treated equally...

    Modern Feminism is Necessary

    I'm afraid i can't argue all your points in this round as i'm in a hurry now to finish this poll due to lack of time but i will try to argue as much as i can. Firstly you say that women and men are treated equally when it comes to sports this is not completely true boys are still far more encouraged to go into sports then girls and girls are often seen as butch if they enjoy sports too much. Next gender roles are an actual thing and how society demands you to act you will often conform this is just psychology not even to do with feminism and while there are biological differences these wouldn't go away men and women would still be different just the gender roles would. Next all movements have radicals no matter who you join i am a huge advocate for the LGBT movement but i can admit we have radicals that go too far and feminism is no exception and also about egalitarian thing it's not up to me to change the movements name so i can't really decide that but perhaps in the future thats what it will be called And for my conclusion i'm going to keep it brief because i believe i have made all my points for Firstly you say that women and men are treated equally when it comes to sports this is not completely true boys are still far more encouraged to go into sports then girls and girls are often seen as butch if they enjoy sports too much. Next gender roles are an actual thing and how society demands you to act you will often conform this is just psychology not even to do with feminism and while there are biological differences these wouldn't go away men and women would still be different just the gender roles would. Next all movements have radicals no matter who you join i am a huge advocate for the LGBT movement but i can admit we have radicals that go too far and feminism is no exception and also about egalitarian thing it's not up to me to change the movements name so i can't really decide that but perhaps in the future thats what it will be called And for my conclusion i'm going to keep it brief because i believe i have made all my points for feminism i do still believe it's necessary and while it's not perfect and i admit that women will probably always need it i do however think the feminist movement should shift their focus onto other problems then some of the ridiculous ones that they do like the shirt guy such as women's rights in 3rd world countries the Muslim sexual assaults in Europe and a variety of men's issues. But i will not abandon it simply because some radicals got into it instead i think we should fix it and bring it back to what it was before i really could on with more points but i think i'll let the other rounds speak for themselves thank you for debating me and good luck.

  • CON

    They haven't contributed anything to society and probably...

    Feminism should end.

    Very well, I will admit that my name is not Jennifer Lopez. Donald Trump has not been proven to be a rapist neither has Bill Clinton. How is Bill Clinton a sexual predator then? Citation missing! Killing a baby means nothing. If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times. Killing a baby means nothing. They haven't contributed anything to society and probably never will if they were going to be aborted. Many aborted babies are retards or downies and therefore would be a burden on society. Other aborted babies would have had whores or crackheads as mothers and no fathers present so they would've become absolute trash and they would have had to resort to crime. If one or two feminists throwing feces at police is feminism then I suppose one or two anti-feminists being homosexuals means homosexuality is anti-feminism. Every woman should support feminism. If they don't, its because they don't know any better. Women do get paid less due to pregnancy, clearly you missed my point. They get paid less because they can't come to work and because they will need time to take care of the child. Only 10% of men get kidney stones and that is not something you can compare to a baby. You don't have to live with your kidney stones for 9 months, you don't have to take care of your kidney stones and you don't need kidney stones in order to sustain human life on this earth. Everyone can get cancer, idiot. Fox News has brainwashed you, dumb little idiot. I am physically stronger than you are, I am mentally stronger than you are and I am smarter than you are. Fear me child. Donald Trump has ruined all of your diplomatic relations, repeatedly broken international law, bombed Syria based on allegations, made your nation the laughing stock of the world and raped women and children.

  • PRO

    Emasculates men. ... This is evidence.

    Feminism fights to harm men.

    My opponent agreed that feminism fights to harm men in their point 2. Gender equality by definition harms men, women, families and society. The bottom line, says Venker, is that, "Feminism has sabotaged women's happiness." Worse, she adds, it's flipped male-female relationships upside down. Just one example: Men more than ever are seeking love, marriage and kids while women want independence. As Schlafly's niece, Venker grew up seeing an alternative view to mainstream feminists views on TV and in the media. Now as a mother in Missouri, she's trying to help her aunt highlight what conservatives feel is wrong with feminism and to build a new understanding between men and women. The book is controversial, especially in liberal circles, for lines like this: "Unfortunately, once feminism came along, women abandoned their pedestal in droves and decided they wanted to share the man's pedestal with him. They claimed they wanted both sexes on the same pedestal to represent equality and prove men and women are the same. Instead, they found themselves in conflict. Since there isn't enough room on a pedestal for both of them, feminists pushed men off to make room for themselves." She added, "That's not equality. That's matriarchy." On sex: "Sex is a problem, too. More and more wives today say they're too tired for sex. ...Naturally, this poses a problem for husbands, who are rarely too tired for sex. Sex is a man's favorite past time, and the wives who are too tired to have it are often resentful of this fact. If change is going to come, it will have to come from women"they are the ones who changed the natural order of things. Moreover, men aren't the ones who kvetch about their place in the world"not because they have it so great, contrary to feminist dogma, but because it's not in their nature. Men tend to go along with whatever women say they need." The duo have also raised concerns about Palin calling herself a conservative feminist. "You can't be both," says Venker, who adds that Palin is "confusing" conservatives by calling herself a feminist. Mainstream media and liberal politicians and pundits also take a big hit, blamed for promoting feminism. They are especially critical of the "feminist elite" including Oprah, first lady Michelle Obama, CBS anchor Katie Couric, and Arianna Huffington. "What these women have in common is clout, and they believe they know that's best for women," they write, adding: "The problem is that the majority of women in this country don't have the power"feminists do. And feminists influence liberals as well as conservatives to confirm to the feminist message." From the book and our recent interview, Whispers has pulled this list: Five Ways That Feminism Has Ruined America 1. It hurt marriage. Women want to wait so that they can keep their identities longer and men are finding easy sex, taking away a big reason for marriage. 2. Undermines child rearing. More kids are in childcare where discipline is lax resulting in a "epidemic" of bad kids, childhood obesity, and bullies. 3. Two-income trap. With both husband and wife working it's hard to live without life's luxuries. 4. Undermines college sports. Title IX has ended many male-only sports at some colleges. 5. Emasculates men. It's better to be a wuss than speak up or mouth off and face charges of harassment or chauvinism. Today, a stay-at-home mother is viewed as a kind of second-class woman. In fact, feminists do not even view stay-at-home mothers as persons. This derogatory view began with Betty Friedan. "[V]acuuming the living room floor"with or without makeup"is not work that takes enough thought or energy to challenge any woman"s full capacity. Down through the ages man has known that he was set apart from other animals by his mind"s power to have an idea, a vision, and shape the future to it. " [W]hen he discovers and creates and shapes a future different from his past, he is a man, a human being" (The Feminine Mystique). The basic idea of feminism was that women should have a choice to go to the workplace and become less animal-like. What does that make a stay-at-home mother? Since being a wife and mother was supposedly glorified in the 1950s, the women"s movement fought to demote that role to the lowest level possible. Many impressionable young women wholeheartedly believed this 1960s philosophy. Unfortunately, this feminist teaching has planted deep roots in the consciousness of American women. The feminist tree has blossomed. Today, it is considered a great shame to be a wife and mother only. In fact, being a wife and mother is synonymous with the meaningless life of a lower, uneducated class of people. What are today"s fruits of this philosophy? The fight for women"s rights has actually turned into a fight against the family. Even the mothers of modern feminism admit that radical feminists have worked hard to repudiate the family. Feminist Stephanie Coontz, history professor at the Evergreen State College in Olympia, Wa., wrote in the Washington Post, "We cannot afford to construct our social policies, our advice to our own children and even our own emotional expectations around the illusion that all commitments, sexual activities and caregiving will take place in a traditional marriage" (May 1). You don"t have to read between the lines to understand that such thinking is destroying the traditional family! It is within the Anglo-American world that feminism has been embraced the most passionately. These countries also have the highest divorce rates in the world, and are producing record numbers of fatherless children"which in turn creates many other social problems. Robert Sheaffer writes, "One can try to argue that the U.S. family died of natural causes at precisely the same time feminists began shooting at it, but after examining the depth and ferocity of the feminist attack against women"s roles as wives and mothers, such an argument fails to convince" (Feminism, the Noble Lie). Let"s own up to it: Feminism has caused some tragic results for the family. If we are going to fix our social problems, we must recognize that feminism has led our Western families into serious crises. Here is how it happened. Although many young women answered the call to pursue a career, they could not deny their natural desire for a husband and children. Many then opted to have a husband, children and a career. Realizing that certain feminine desires could not be denied, a new movement slogan was quickly pushed into public view""having it all." This slogan lives on. But it ignores a hard reality for many working mothers: Having it all also means handling it all. Working career mothers were forced into a high-stress rat race. Having it all was supposed to be fulfilling, but it was not. Now, almost four decades later, women find they are not any closer to finding true, satisfying fulfillment. For some, "having it all" has meant losing it all. The truth is, working mothers suffer. The children of working mothers always suffer. And should we forget"the husband suffers too. Severe fatigue plagues many working mothers. Balancing career, marriage and child care is an impossible task. Few can actually do it all. To do it all, corners have to be cut. Unfortunately, because of feminist peer pressure, marriage and family are sacrificed before career. Many two-career marriages have crumbled. Children have been left at home alone. Can we begin to see the harm that working motherhood has done to families? Our society of working mothers is a disaster. Experts agree that the industrial revolution produced families with absentee fathers. Now feminism has given us families with absentee mothers. What does this mean? Essentially, our children are growing up alone. It is estimated that as many as 60 percent of American children do not have full-time parental supervision. Think about it. If children are blessed enough to be in a two-parent home, generally they still have both parents working outside the home. The children are left home alone. If the family is run by a single parent, that parent (whether male or female) is working. Again, the children are home alone. This means our youth are growing up with an ever-dwindling amount of parental love, nurturing and supervision. The average latchkey child (a child returning home after school with no parent to greet him) is alone three hours per day. Some of these children are as young as 8; most are in their teens. When we think about parents arriving home after a difficult day at the office, we can logically surmise that there is not much quality time left for the child. All children and teens fundamentally need acceptance, praise, teaching and discipline. Children need to be taught right from wrong. Children need to learn how to be successful. This requires experience and activities. These needs are best met by parents. If these needs are not met at home, children have no other choice than to look elsewhere. This makes our children frustrated, angry and vulnerable to many dangers. This is evidence.

  • CON

    Yes many women can be crazy and it has gone too far, but...

    Feminism Needs to die out

    The final round we should stop talking about countries. Iraq: why wouldn't you be concerned about 13? It is still very young, and the girl is only in year 7 or 8, don't you think its too young for her to fall pregnant and go under child labor? Nepal: When I said men are custodians of women, I meant they should protect them in a kind and loving way; not in a way where her freedom and education is taken away and her whole life is controlled by a man, NO! That's not protection, that's imprisonment. Turkey: Well what you said here is true I can't deny, but it can happen and I'm not only talking about Turkey but other places too. Afghanistan: That story only happened 2-3 years ago so its not that long ago. So women who marry very young and get beaten up by their husbands and face troubles and hardships, and depression, and you're telling me its no one's fault? Mali: Your point here is good so can't refute. Anyways, this world is corrupt and it gets worse and worse every year. Nothing is going to change even if you and other people say it should, it won't. As I've said before, feminism is the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of sexes, so women want to be as equal as men. Yes many women can be crazy and it has gone too far, but the main reason why feminism has increased a lot is because of the incidents that I've mentioned before and many more. Whether feminism should die out or not, it's not gonna change anything, and either way it seems most likely nothing will ever change. Physical violence and abuse against women is a common thing you can't deny that.