• PRO

    I'm sorry, I expressed myself wrong. ... Since you are...

    Feminism is morally good

    I'm sorry, I expressed myself wrong. I didn't mean you deliberately took my debate out of context by relating morality to abortion. What I wanted to say is that feminism doesn't necessarily defend abortion. While it is true that many feminists support abortion as a form of female right, there are many feminist pro-life organizations. In fact, the first feminists were totally against abortion. I myself was prepared for a debate on the morality of feminism, not abortion. Since you are not debating against equal rights (the basis for feminism), but against abortion, I feel the debate as I proposed it is no longer possible. This is why I am deciding to drop the debate.

  • CON

    In the future I would like to have children, and I would...

    feminism is meaningless

    Hi, white Swedish feminist male here and I believe you've misunderstood a couple of things. First of, feminism isn't the belief that women should be equal to men, it is the belief that both genders are equal. I agree with you wholeheartedly that the name "feminism" is very misleading but if it helps you can use "gender equality" instead. It is completely synonymous and it describes the movement much better. Now, I am a Swede, so I will use statistics and facts that are true for Sweden since they are the ones I am the most comfortable with. But since Sweden is amongst the more gender equal countries I think they will suffice. Ok, here we go. I am very well aware of the "myth" of the wage gap. I've heard a thousand variations of it. That the average wages of women is lower because more women decide to stay at home, or that they usually go for lower paying jobs, or that they don't get a higher education. All of these statements are sadly correct and are exactly why feminism is needed. Women shouldn't be stay at home wives or office secretaries. There should be more female doctors and lawyers and engineers and scientist. Otherwise half the population is going to waste. Furthermore, even if you account for the above mentioned reasons women's wages are still lower then men's. A female cashier (or any other job for that matter) gets less paid than a male one, there is no question about it. Here's a link to some statistics about gender inequality in Sweden by the "Central Statistical Bureau of Sweden" (a very crude translation, apologies). It's in English so you should be able to read it. http://www.scb.se... The first graph shows the how much lower the state pension of women is compared to men. Since the pension is based on all the wages you have had throughout your life it is quite self explanatory why this is relevant. If you scroll down a bit more you'll find something that might interest you a bit. It is a graph over paid maternal vs paternal leave. This is one of those cases in which men also need feminism. In the future I would like to have children, and I would honestly not mind being a stay at home dad for the first couple of years of their life. But as the graphs shows, men get a fraction of the paid parental leave women get. Children should not be raised solely by women, having a child is a shared responsibility and privilege, therefore the rearing of the child should be shared equally as well. Sadly you give me too little to work with when you speak of the rape culture, I am not entirely sure what you are talking about. If you could elaborate on it a bit I might give you a satisfactory answer in my next argument. Lastly, your point about beauty. This is another thing you've got mixed up. Women have throughout history been a bit of a male accessory, which has led to women sort of being forced to look pretty to be accepted in society. Obviously it has gotten a A LOT better now, but there are still some remnants from the past. For example, the male makeup industry is basically nonexistent because it is much more accepted for a man to not have his "brow game on fleek". When you say "Feminists also create this kind of culture that no matter how you look you're beautiful, yet if a male is short they make fun of them, call them ugly, etc." it shows that you've misunderstood the point. Feminism says women should be able to choose to look pretty or not without being treated differently, just like men are. It does not say that you are forced to think all women are pretty. Beauty is subjective and what you find attractive depends on your own sexual preference. Personally I don't find fat women attractive. Does not mean I have to force myself to go out on a date with one so that I can be a good feminist. As long as I treat a fat woman equally to a skinnier one I'm fine. Just like I'd treat a fat guy equally to a Chris Hemsworth kind of guy. That's my take on feminism, hope you like it. My impression is that you seem to confuse feminism with militant feminazis who want to overthrow the world order and enslave all men. It is a common mistake and nothing to be ashamed of, just don't propagate the misconception. It hurts everyone in the end.

  • PRO

    Feminism is frowned upon in society because people...

    Feminism Is Needed in America Today

    Feminism is necessary in America today because women are still far more disadvantaged than men. 91% of rape victims are female, and 1 out of every 6 women has been a victim of attempted or completed rape. Furthermore, women are also underrepresented in media despite being roughly half the population, with only 29% of protagonists and 37% of major characters being female in 2016's top 100 films in the US box office. Feminism is frowned upon in society because people misinterpret what it means - many people think that it calls for better rights for women over men, when it simply calls for gender equality. Feminism is necessary because it can be empowering for women, and it needs to exist so that men will be called upon to face the consequences of their sexism.

  • PRO

    You say it's common but I have to disagree. ... Just...

    Feminism Does Not Equal Hate for Me

    You say it's common but I have to disagree. I have seen mostly positive and opened minded feminists. We can't just jumble then all together. That's not fair. Besides, saying that man hate is common makes it seem like feminism hasn't done any good. Without feminism, the world would be a very ugly, unfriendly place. Feminism has helped women and men. It has shown people that you don't have the follow the gender roles society tries to hand out. Just because some people are men haters and feminists should not reflect what feminism stands for.

  • CON

    I would like to thank my opponent for this debate. ... I...

    Feminism is anti-religious

    I would like to thank my opponent for this debate. To begin, I would like to point out just how absurd the motion put forward is. "Feminism is anti-religious". Currently there are 21 religions classified as "major" world religions, with hundreds upon hundreds more denominations and indegenous religions. To state that feminism is against "religion" boradly is simply absurd. This notion is so absurd in fact, that I only need one example to disprove it. In Sikhism scriptures, it is very clearly state that women are equal to men[1]. I would like to put forward that Sikhism is a religion, and that because it regards women as equal to men, it is not against feminism. Thus, we have clear grounds to reject this motion. http://www.realsikhism.com...

  • PRO

    I would like to conclude with my argument that feminism...

    Feminism is necessary

    I would like to clear up the matter of "Moving the Goalposts." As I am part of a debate team myself, I understand what "moving the goalposts" is, as well as the problems it causes. In this case, I do not agree with my opponent's argument. You provided the definition of necessary as "essential, indispensable, requisite." I would like to fully define all three of these words: Essential: "absolutely necessary; extremely important." Indispensable: "absolutely necessary." Requisite: "made necessary by particular circumstances or regulations; a thing that is necessary for the achievement of a specified end." The definition you provided simply used synonyms for the word necessary. I elaborated on the definition as using synonyms does not provide a clear definition of the word. As this has become a problem, I would elaborate on the definition again, using a much clearer definition: "required to be done, achieved, or present; needed; essential." I believe in both of these cases, the definition has supported my case that feminism is indeed necessary. I would like to conclude with my argument that feminism is indeed necessary for a fully functional, fair society. It is needed for humans to live cohesively. Feminism provides people with a sense of self-worth and identity, something that is required for a fully functional human being. I would like to remind you again that the length of something's existence does not determine its worth. I would also like to state the fact that as most of my opponent's argument has consisted of semantics, it is not valid considering the definitions we provided. I feel this conversation has fallen to semantics, therefore not allowing for a real debate on this issue. I would be happy to debate this topic with you again, as I am interested in what you have to say. I do not feel this debate accurately represents what either of us has to say. I found the definitions of all three words simply through Google. Thank you and good luck! :)

  • PRO

    We blow it off like they should. ... They thought they...

    Feminism is bad

    Sure the points you made are true, but we are not in Iraq. Im talking about the United States society. Secondly, i never said a PORNOGRAPHY magazine. And third, all of your points are not feminism, they are pro equal rights. I am all for equal rights, but the feminist community has strayed so far from "equal rights," that they've turned it into taking rights away from men. In todays job market, there is no more equal rights, its minorities and women get jobs over white men. I could go apply at McDonalds with a high school degree and a white woman could do the same and because of "feminism" she would get the job. If, by a miracle, i were to get the job, assuming she is a feminist, would label it as sexist when in reality if she got the job, i would just walk away from it and go apply somewhere else. And while i will agree with your conclusion that women are still discriminated against, so are men. Nobody reports the cases in men because we dont freak out about it. We blow it off like they should. This is the same principle as racism, a white man can be racist yet a black cannot. Even though they sold their own people. The image that women are up in arms about, or the "barbie doll figure," is one that they made. They thought they looked good like that so they starve themselves or puke their food up. And still a man can be sexist but a woman cannot. Its a backwards outlook for an insane group group of people. Equal rights is good, however, feminism is not.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Feminism-is-bad/1/
  • CON

    Two options exist: Either A) support compulsory public...

    Feminism is not sexist.

    I would like to thank my opponent for accepting. Good luck to you PRO. Here is a revised version of my syllogism, with the word "this" removed and replaced with the phrase to which it refers: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. Any movement which actively supports bias towards, or against, a single group within the Legal, Social, and Political arenas. is discriminatory. 2. Any movement that [actively supports bias towards, or against, a single group within the Legal, Social, and Political arenas] on the basis of gender is sexist. 3. Feminism does [actively supports bias towards, or against, a single group within the Legal, Social, and Political arenas on the basis of gender.] C. Therefore, Feminism is sexist. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When I say "actively supports bias...", I am explicitly referring to the support of laws and treatments that place on group at a disadvantage when compared to another. In this debate, men are my primary reference group. In the definitions provided in Round 1, a very critical word is "grounds", which can be considered the justification for belief in something. In this instance, that would be the belief in the advocacy of women's rights. The goal in mind is the equality of the sexes, and Feminists (those who agree with and support the tenants of Feminism) see advocacy of women's rights as the means to the ends. For this debate, I shall be looking at such things as Selective service, and those things that come with it, Domestic Violence, and the way feminist theory views it, and Sexual Violence. I understand that this is Feminist Theory, and may not be characteristic of the beliefs of all feminists, but these are the tenants used to justify Feminist Advocacy. Selective Service and the Draft While we cannot blame Feminists for the existence of the Draft and Selective Service, in any of its worldly interations, we can argue that feminism has allowed the Draft and Selective Service to specifically effect men. At least in the United States, men are, by law, required to sign up for Selective Service in order to gain access to voting and federal aid [1]. Not signing up for Selective Service is a felony, and can actually result in a male losing his right to vote. This seems to me to be an issue that Feminism should address, on grounds of the equality of the sexes, however, feminists at large choose not to protest male-only Selctive Service and Conscription. Two options exist: Either A) support compulsory public service for women, or B) Support the abolishment of Selective Service. Since it's inception in the late 19th century, Feminsm as a social movement has chosen to do neither. This is to choose to support an inequity between the sexes, and given that this is support of a law that affects men only, this is to also choose to support a bias against men. Why do I bring up the Draft and Selective Service? I bring it up because Feminism is supposedly a movement to support gender equality, but it chooses to only support those things that benefit women (voting), over those things that would harm them (compulsory public service). While i would not suggest women should be conscripted when the need arises, I am arguing that there should be a similar system by which women must buy their right to vote. Domestic Violence, Rape Law and the Duluth Model The Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) is based upon the Duluth Model, which suggests that domestic violence (DV) is a tool used by men to exert control over their spouse. This act changed intimate partner violence into a sexually directional offense, making it more likely that a man will be arrested for retaliating to his spouse’s abuse than his spouse being arrested for abusing him. While the VAWA does ensure that female victims of DV are protected, it has the negative consequence of preventing the protection of male victims. In this instance, a women’s right to equal and fair treatment under the law is not being applied. In keeping with the above definition of Feminism, and what “equality” would entail in this instance, a male abuser and female abuser would be held to the same standard. This would be a major piece of what feminism should take into account. While this may advocate for women’s interests, avoiding domestic violence, it does not provide equality for the sexes. Rather, in this instance, it shifts the balance of power in such a way that, even if he retaliates, a man is more likely to be arrested that a woman, in keeping with the Duluth Model. Ideally, advocating for women’s rights and interests would entail pushing for recognition under the law as a fully capable citizen, meaning a female abuser is recognized as an abuser, as much as a male victim is recognized as a victim. A program that holds women in “victim” status dehumanizes them because it makes the assumption that not only is abuse sexually direction, but also that women are wholly incapable of abuse, and solely capable of self-defense. As it stands, women are recognized as capable of the “positive” human characteristics (leadership, strength, intellect, compassion, etc.) but not recognized as capable of the “negative” human characteristics (aggression, ferocity, etc.) under the law. Whereas a man can be charged with sexual harassment for speaking inappropriately, a woman cannot be charged with rape, even after drugging and forcing a man to engage in sexual intercourse with her. While the dictionary definition of rape entails non-consensual intercourse, the legal definition entails penetration, making it impossible for a woman to rape a man through vaginal intercourse, regardless of his ability to consent to intercourse. Bringing alcohol, or other mind altering substances, adjusts the ability of an individual to consent. However, it is current law that if a drunk man has sex with a drunk woman, he can be charged with rape, regardless of the circumstances surrounding the encounter. If she initiates intercourse with him, it can be considered rape. Both individuals are drunk, both incapable of consent, and yet he can be charged with rape. There have been no pushes to change this. In fact, VAWA is the main reason the current situation exists. VAWA is the epitome of feminist legislation. “Women” is part of the title, so that suggest that these things are Women’s issues. Once again, there is the issue of equal recognition under law, the “equality of the sexes” is being adjusted by “organized activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests”. Even beyond this, it would be an intelligent inference to believe that being recognized as a full human, capable of good AND evil, is a part of feminism. Such things should be recognized as sexist. In each of these examples, women are being granted rights and protections that are not afforded to men, and sometimes even taking away rights and protections that should be afforded them. This creates bias against men, and for women, based solely upon thier gender, which leads me to believe that, per the definitions provided, Feminism is sexist. I look forward to PRO's responses. [1] https://www.sss.gov... [2]nhttp://www.theduluthmodel.org...... [3] ttp://www.whitehouse.gov...... [4] http://www.merriam-webster.com...... [5] http://www.justice.gov...... [6] http://online.wsj.com...... [7] http://www.debate.org...

  • CON

    are the women that want EQUAL treatment, rights,...

    Modern Feminism

    I am a man who is all for feminism. But only the correct feminism. There is a LARGE difference between MODERN and REAL feminism. Real feminists are pro-equality. Modern feminists are pro-women. That is the true essence of why they are not the same. The real feminists (Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, etc.) are the women that want EQUAL treatment, rights, abilities, and opportunities. They want to be defended equally in law and seen as EQUALS in the eyes of everyone. Modern feminists (Hillary Clinton, Michelle Obama, etc.) support pushing for women to not only be equal but actually have MORE rights and privileges than men. THAT IS NOT OKAY! I fully support equality for men and women both but I do not support one side having more power or rights or abilities or opportunities than the other. Ever. TRUE feminists believe that women must make success happen for themselves (just like men have to do). But modern feminists believe men should be forced to hand them opportunities or else it is a "misogyny." I just live by the simple ideal that EVERYONE (male or female) should HAVE to EARN ANYTHING THEY WANT! I will never support handing ANYONE anything! I've never been handed anything and I don't believe handing people anything, especially based off sex, is not okay. We need to raise an America with strong, independent people that can fend for themselves. Thank you.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Modern-Feminism/2/
  • PRO

    Just to shortly begin, I feel as if todays face of...

    Feminism Is Cancer

    Just to shortly begin, I feel as if todays face of feminism has become destructive. I would like to hear my opponent describe her (because we know no guy will argue against me) thoughts of this ideology, and why it is beneficial to todays society.