• PRO

    Of course, this is not merely limited to pay. ... [1]...

    Feminism! Hooray!

    A quick prologue point - I take it as read that we both support the notion of equality. As you noted in the comments 'I understand that the idea of feminism is somewhat relevant to creating a better world' and 'being a good person and fighting purely for the equal treatment of the sexes is one thing'. ~ To begin I would like to posit two major themes to demonstrate why feminism remains necessary and why the positives of the broad feminist movement outweigh any perceived negatives. I will then go into greater depth citing examples to flesh out both of these arguments: 1. While gains have been made by, and on the behalf, of women this process is and remains incomplete. 2. Those gains that have been made require a feminist movement to prevent "reaction" ('resistance or opposition to a force, influence, or movement; especially : tendency toward a former and usually outmoded political or social order or policy'[1]) by those who would seek to undo socio-political and cultural developments which have led to the creation of a more equitable society. ------- 1. The gains made by feminism, as a movement, are historically well established. The suffrage movement of the 19th century after over half a century of campaigning succeeded in ensuring that women had the right to vote in every state in 1920. By the 1960s feminism had taken on wider social objectives beyond merely concern with the franchise. Some of the successes of the Second Wave of feminism include important support for the Civil Rights Movement, but most presciently, equal pay. These can be seen in land mark legislation including the Equal Pay Act of 1963 and the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Of course, these battles have yet to be fully won. In 2009, in the USA, women's pay remained only 77% of male pay. This is a vast improvement on the position in 1980 where it was only around 60%, by 1990 it stood at 71.6% and in 2000 73.7%. This highlights two important points worth observing.[2] First, that feminism was and remains a movement which is actively making society more equitable. Second, despite those gains, a 23% point difference in pay indicates that this process has yet to be fully achieved. This suggests that continued social pressure is necessary to ensure that society will be still more equitable in future. Of course, this is not merely limited to pay. Various employment sectors remain gendered 'spheres'[3]. Academia, for instance, despite being recognised as a generally 'liberal' and 'progressive' profession, remains deeply gendered in its hierarchy. To take academic medicine as an example, despite 47% of graduates and 46% of residents being female only 21% of full professors are women. Still more concerning, only 15% of department chairs are women.[4] Third Wave feminism, with its origins in the 1990s, now orientates feminism to also strive to resolve crucial cultural concerns which are also absolutely relevant in 2015. These include highlighting otherwise 'hidden' social problems such as (but by no means limited to): - Gender violence and domestic abuse, both of which disproportionately negatively affect women's lives. It is estimated that one in four women will experience domestic violence in their lives and that each year 2.3 million women will suffer at the hand of their partner. However, since feminist groups began to highlight this problem in the 1990s, and offered support to women who have suffered abuse, women have felt more able to come forward and report acts of domestic violence. This has had a two-fold effect, first, as a society we have become more aware of the problem and are thus able to tackle it. Second, because these women have been able to call on established support groups the associated costs and pressures on local, regional and national services has been offset. This has been estimated to have saved $14.8bn between the passing of the Violence Against Women Act of 1994 and the year 2000. Thus, not only is a vocal feminist movement highlighting this problem, it is bringing respite to beleaguered victims of violence and also much needed relief to social support services which has significant economic benefit.[5] - Challenges culturally malevolent and socially constructed patriarchal modes of thought which had previous been normative. Not only do these modes of thoughts harm and restrict women but they also harm and restrict men. The notion that it is the male role to be a breadwinner and a woman's to bear, rear and nurture children has no relevance in modern society. Multiple historical and contemporary examples exist to demonstrate this. For instance, in Britain during the Second World War, millions of women directly contributed their labour to the war effort, including over 600,000 employed in the armed forces. The notion that heavy, industrial and intellectual work was the preserve of men, and that women are best suited to domestic and sexualised roles, was conclusively and empirically disproved. Nevertheless, these kinds of socially constructed gender stereotypes continue to inform contemporary thinking and inform how we view the world from a very early age.[6] This, I contend harms both men and women. It holds many women back from making as full a contribution to modern society as they otherwise might, and it also places pressure on men to behave in ways that do not necessarily suit them. Why, for example, should it be deemed 'abnormal', beyond the statistical point, for a man to stay at home and raise children (or perhaps only have a part-time job) while the mother of his children is the primary household breadwinner? [For anybody reading, I realise that this is an unduly cis-gendered and hetronormative familiar relationship I describe] Contemporary feminism has brought, and continues to bring, these kinds of issue to wider social attention. 2. [And I'll keep this short and snappy] The gains made by feminism are by no means guaranteed, and without an active feminist 'voice' within society, they can be easily eroded. And there are concrete examples of this, ranging from the recent gamergate storm-in-a-teacup to reproductive rights. For instance, and not to get into a debate about abortion but this is important, Roe vs Wade has been under sustained attack. In 2006 South Dakota attempted to ban abortion in all cases except where the "mother's" life was in danger. I don't want to go into a lengthy screed on the reasons why I support the right for women to control their own bodies. If you're interested then I broadly agree with Judith Jarvis Thompson's 'Violinist analogy'. [7] Conclusion In very brief, I have cited some examples where feminism has clearly helped take progressive steps to make society more equitable. I have also shown that the work on this front is yet to be completed, and that a viable feminist movement needs to further work towards this goal and keep it centre stage in public discourse. Moreover, those gains that have been made are not, at least without defence from feminists, far from 'safe'. Thanks a lot. I look forward to your counter-thesis. [1] http://www.merriam-webster.com... [2] http://www.iwpr.org... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org... [4] https://www.aamc.org... [5] http://nnedv.org... [6] http://ashatenbroeke.nl... [7] http://spot.colorado.edu...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Feminism-Hooray/1/
  • CON

    While this statement is not completely false it does have...

    Feminism is useless in the west now.

    "I firmly believe feminism has outlived it's usefulness in society and no longer has any use in the western world. " While this statement is not completely false it does have an issue with it, while i do believe that men are women are already equal in western societies in every way possible (if anything its arguable women have more rights nowadays) but it is not useless because when other women from countries like Saudi Arabia or somewhere in the middle east where women are not equal to men look for western countries and see how women are proud to be themselves voice their opinions strongly under a banner (feminism) they can put themselves under that same banner and rise above. while i understand that you "third world countries have nothing to do with this debate" written but it is a only valid reason that feminism in the west is still useful because they can look up to it. So my argument is, Feminism is useful because other people can look up to it, unite under a banner and feel powerful. By feel powerful what i mean is when any kind of person is in a group of people who you know are in the group because they share the same ideas (even though almost everyone agrees that both genders are equal) they feel empowered to share them and to be in that group.

  • CON

    However, even if i were to disobey the rules i set forth...

    Feminism is about equality.

    I would like to thank my opponent for her response, however, I do not accept the definition that she has provided. As stated in the first round, when i was laying out the rules for this debate: Definitions Feminism: Definition 1: the theory of political, economic and social equality of the sexes. Definition 2: organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests Equality: the quality or state of having the same rights, social status, etc. -from merriam-webster.com Burden of Proof will be shared. Above definitions are not subject to change. While i did explicitly state that Round Two is not for refutations, i find it strange that my opponent does not take into account the definition that i provided in my argument. I also find it strange that she does not provide any evidence to support her argument. Given that feminism is an ideology AND a form of activism, i presented a definition that would encompass both of these to further the goals of this debate. My opponent attempts to argue for only one piece of feminism. As with any ideology or philosophy, simply defining the ideology does not explain it's effects, nor does it actually express what the ideology actually expresses. Were I to state that "racism is a feeling of pride in one's nationality or ethnicity", that would not explain the results of said ideology. As the Burden of Proof is shared, i request that my opponent provide evidence of her position; simply defining a term "feminism" does not show that feminism is actually about equality, especially given the fact that (per merriam-webster.com) feminism can be referring to two separate ideas or topics. It seems to me that this is a fallacy of equivocation on the part of my opponent, as she conflates one definition of feminism to be the definition which we are to be debating, despite me having defined Feminism in Round One, as i was outlining the rules of this debate. The main reason i combined the definitions in my Opening Statement was to ensure that my opponent and myself had a reasonable definition of the term we are debating. However, even if i were to disobey the rules i set forth when outlining this debate, and allow the definition my opponent provided, my argument will still hold. **Using my opponents definition, rather than my own, my argument remains sound. Please go back and read the argument i have provided, you will see that this is true, as any legislation, organization, or people who "advocate for women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men" would be dubbed feminist by both my definition and her definition.** Despite this, i request that my opponent follow the rules of the debate as they are laid out. As she was unable to construct an argument, i would also like to request of her an Opening Statement. If any audience members/voters would be so kind as to allow this slight bending of the rules, it would be much appreciated. I do this in the hopes that my opponent will be able to provide evidence that supports her claim and position. There is not much for me to refute in her opening statement, as it is simply a re-definition of the term, an assertion that my definition is not applicable, and an assertion that i have not provided evidence that is contrary to the resolution "Feminism is about equality." If my opponent would be so kind as to provide evidence to support her claim, as well as give a refutation to my own claims from Round Two, i believe this debate may become more than a simple game of the meaning of words. I look forward to recieving a response from my oppenent, and thank her in advance.

  • PRO

    Now, this society (the United States in particular) is...

    Feminism is not an ideology of equality

    Feminism has morphed into a misbegotten ideology whose only purpose is to rally people behind a bigoted cause: that women are the oppressed party in every scenario, and we should pander to them whenever they cry that their feelings are hurt or that they are the victim in court cases. It has also nuked the fridge on the idea of the patriarchy and 'rape culture'. Without a doubt, patriarchy would have been an appropriate description of society 200 years ago. Even 50 years ago you could make the case for a patriarchy existing. Now, this society (the United States in particular) is not a patriarchal one. Feminism had utility in the early 1900's, when women really were oppressed and rallying behind a figurehead and standing up for their rights was exactly what was required, and perhaps heavily Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia could do with a healthy dose of that kind of feminism, but certainly not the kind of 'Punch Men', politically correct, Tumblr-feminism that has taken hold of people in the United States.

  • PRO

    The ideology of humanism covers all human matters. ......

    Humanism is a better ideology then Feminism

    I wish you luck in this debate. I will begin by going over the definition of humanism and feminism. Humanism: An outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems. Feminism: The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. The ideology of humanism covers all human matters. It protects men, women, animals, our planet, our technology, our sciences, the actions we humans do, and so much more. Feminism claims to be for equality, but if they were for equality, why is it that Feminists and the M.R.A. (Men's Rights Movement) are so opposed to each other? The M.R.A. fights for equality, and feminism CLAIMS to. So if they really fought for equality, why wouldn't they be allied? I'll just leave that initial argument there to start up a conversation.

  • CON

    But in my example with an established game like Mortal...

    Feminism is ruining video games

    Apologies for the very delayed response. I’ll try to be more punctual in the future. My opponent has proven his point that feminism is, in some shape or form, influencing video games. However, he fails to articulate, fully, the exact nature of his argument, which is that feminism is ruining video games. In order to prove this point, I’ve taken the liberty of highlighting a few of his quotes from his previous argument. 1. “But in my example with an established game like Mortal Kombat, they just decided to change the story drastically in favour of a female antagonist being the main hero.” My first question is how does feminism directly affect this? How can we assure it was feminism that caused this creative change and not the simplistic idealism of the team in charge of crafting this editions story? Secondly, what evidence is there that this creative change ruined the game? While it may have negatively impacted my opponent’s own gameplay, this does not mean that the majority of others felt the same way. Now, full disclosure, I am only somewhat familiar with the Mortal Combat series, so my reaction to this creative choice was not nearly as dramatic as others. However, the main point is that feminism may not have been the root of this change, which means feminism may not have ruined the game. 2. “The question I ask is why? I know its up to the developers of the game but was it needed for the story, or was it just for the sake of pandering to feminist women who always want a perfect female dominated story?” My opponent asks this question, which is the root of my argument: there is no knowledge if the root of the change was because of creative direction or feminism pandering. 3. “Its only an issue because feminist women are insecure, and that personal emotion bring the value down of the game.” This is a fact statement, therefore it needs credulity. If my opponent wishes to state such things, then they must fully support these assertions. 4. “Imagine if every game had to politically pander to a certain group, then stories won't be interesting, and lose the creativity and imagination that games are known for.” Yet again, my opponent assumes that political pandering is at the root for every change in video games that may be attributed to feminism. However, he continues to fail at properly stating why and how he knows this. 5. “Mainly what I am saying is that feminist feel entitled to point out characters that they deem inappropriate, but the majority of gamers, and even society, don't agree with their values.” This last statement is a truly troublesome one for my opponent. He provides a fact statement rooted in incredulity. Firstly, he has no evidence that the majority of gamers, let alone society, disagree with feminist values. Secondly, he still has no proof that feminism directly caused these changes. Lastly, and by far most importantly, he is basing the whole of his argument on the changes made in ONE GAME. This is not conclusive, whatsoever. In short, while my opponent has raised an interesting idea, he has yet to support it properly. Because of this, I ask that he provide more evidence in the next round lest he allow the inferences of his argument be the weight of his arguments. That’s all for now. Thanks for your patience! I’m quite enjoying this.

  • CON

    Basic Definitions: Feminism is a collection of movements...

    F*CK feminism!

    Basic Definitions: Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.[1][2] This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment.(1) feminism: noun 1. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men. 2. an organized movement for the attainment of such rights for women(2). Organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests.(3) More detailed description & variety: Feminist activists campaign for women's rights – such as in contract law, property, and voting – while also promoting bodily integrity, autonomy, and reproductive rights for women. Feminist campaigns have changed societies, particularly in the West, by achieving women's suffrage, gender neutrality in English, equal pay for women, reproductive rights for women (including access to contraceptives and abortion), and the right to enter into contracts and own property.[7][8] Feminists have worked to protect women and girls from domestic violence, sexual harassment, and sexual assault.[9][10][11] They have also advocated for workplace rights, including maternity leave, and against forms of discrimination against women.[7][8][12]Feminism is mainly focused on women's issues, but because feminism seeks gender equality,bell hooks, among other feminists, has argued that men's liberation is a necessary part of feminism, and that men are also harmed by sexism and gender roles.[13] (1) Feminism is both an intellectual commitment and a political movement that seeks justice for women and the end of sexism in all forms. However, there are many different kinds of feminism. Feminists disagree about what sexism consists in, and what exactly ought to be done about it; they disagree about what it means to be a woman or a man and what social and political implications gender has or should have. Nonetheless, motivated by the quest for social justice, feminist inquiry provides a wide range of perspectives on social, cultural, economic, and political phenomena. Important topics for feminist theory and politics include: the body, class and work, disability, the family, globalization, human rights, popular culture, race and racism, reproduction, science, the self, sex work, human trafficking, and sexuality. (4) I await my opponents arguments. (1) http://en.wikipedia.org... (2) http://dictionary.reference.com...; (3) http://www.merriam-webster.com... (4) http://plato.stanford.edu...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/F-CK-feminism/1/
  • CON

    I was beaten to the "Accept argument" button and I will...

    Feminism Should not be Encouraged

    I was beaten to the "Accept argument" button and I will like to debate this also. If you want to accept this challenge, I will make case in round two. I will copy your "Round 1", and paste it here: "I will be arguing against Feminism. I believe that it is a negative movement because feminism does not accept that sexism goes both ways and effects men as much as it does women. This is not the only point I will be making on the subject however it will be one of my primary arguments. My adversary will be arguing that Feminism is positive, and will give their reasoning for this view." - Mr0strich8020. Round 1 - acceptance. I accept. If you do not want to accept this, message me and I will cancel the debate. Good luck. I also ask for my opponent not to post a case in round one.

  • PRO

    Con will outline his beliefs in the first round and from...

    Feminism is useless in the west now.

    I firmly believe feminism has outlived it's usefulness in society and no longer has any use in the western world. Con will outline his beliefs in the first round and from there the debate will progress through 2 more rounds with the second and third rounds revolving around our reasons and any factual evidence we may have. To clarify this arguement concerns feminism in its current 3rd wave form in the western world so third world countries have nothing to do with this debate and neither does the past waves of feminism giving women the right to vote and etc. I already accept that those were necessary and thus they have nothing to do with this debate.

  • PRO

    A study found that "one out of every 3.8 television...

    Modern Feminism

    Definitions- Feminism: "advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men." Rape Culture: "a complex set of beliefs that encourage male sexual aggression and supports violence against women. A rape culture condones physical and emotional terrorism against women as the norm." These definitions will be sufficient for both sides of the debate. I will not accept other definitions. Good luck. Feminism may not always be relevant. It may not always have a place in society. There may come a day when feminism is a thing of the past. But that day is not today. That day is not tomorrow, or next week, or six months from now. Now, feminism is a necessary idea of empowerment, of strength and sisterhood. It is relevant in every country around the world including the so advanced and so equal United States. You see, feminism is not simply an idea that protects women who are treated as slaves by their husbands. Feminism is a belief that all people are created equal and deserve to be treated as such. I will agree that women in the United States are far better off than women in many Middle Eastern countries. But if for a single moment you believe women are treated equally, you, sir, are the problem. The actual concept of feminism itself is often warped into the idea of female supremacy and "man-hating." Feminists are not seeking female domination. In America, we are only seeking equal rights. A 2015 study found, "The United States is no different, as women earn $0.77 to every $1 men earn for the same amount of work. Currently, women hold 99 of 535 seats (18.5 percent) in the 113th U.S. Congress; 20 of 100 seats (20 percent) in the Senate and 79 of 435 seats (18.2 percent) in the House of Representatives. The United States has never had a woman president. Also, women in the U.S. military account for only 14.5 percent of active-duty force." Women still lack equal representation in the halls of government in America. I would not call that equal. You state above that "there are people in other countries, such as Afghanistan, or china, where women legitimately are objectified and they are oppressed, here in the United States they have many rights,". I agree there are women in other countries who are oppressed. Women in the United States (generally) do not face the same types of hardships as women in other countries. But different does not mean less than. In the United States, the beauty ideal for women is so disproportionate and unhealthy that we actually have "Anna Rexia" Halloween costumes. A study found that "one out of every 3.8 television commercials sent some sort of 'attractiveness message' to the people who were watching. These messages are directed to the American consumer more often than not to sell a product but at the same time they are telling the consumer what is essential to be beautiful in American society." There are constantly billboards and advertisements showing off the ideal image of "beauty." Women are always bombarded with images of this. Women are picked apart constantly and told we aren't good enough. Twelve year old girls are checked out by 50 year old men. Men will unabashedly stare at a woman's breasts in normal conversation. Girls are sent home from school for wearing yoga pants because "it's distracting to the boys." Do not tell me women are not objectified when I have battled anorexia because I was 115 pounds and was told I was too fat. Do not tell me women are not objectified when my ten year old sister has been cat called. Do not tell me women in America are not objectified when every single day I see billboards, pictures, and advertisements on how to "perfect" myself for a man. Do not tell me this does not exist. You argue that "In the current day they act as if we are still in that day and age, when women get raped it's because someone who has serious mental issues was allowed that opportunity, some are under the influence of illicit drugs and or they're potentially more uncontrollable counterpart, alcohol. Not many men rape or even have thoughts of rape, nor any desire to do so. A simply hello or a casual comment that is meant in a flirtatious or even a courteous way does not signify or blow a whistle (that's ironic) signalling rape." A study conducted by the Washington Coalition of Sexual Assault Programs found, "Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes." Another study conducted by the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network found that "1 in 3 sexual assaults, the perpetrator was intoxicated — 30% with alcohol, 4% with drugs." Most rapists are not, in fact, intoxicated or under the influence. Two-thirds of all rapes in the United States are conducted by completely sober men. A casual greeting or a whistle on the street may seem trivial to you, but to women, it is a warning sign. Generally, men who are interested in getting to know a woman to actually get to know her are not whistling at her on the street. They are not shouting crude comments to her as she passes. These actions are frightening, not flattering. I do not find it flattering when a random man on the street tells me he wants to "f*ck me." Feminism is the fight for decency and respect towards women. It is the fight against mindsets like yours that protect rapists and turn a blind eye. It is the fight to spread awareness for the oppression we feel, even if it is different from that of women in the Middle East. It is the fight to be treated with respect. Your last argument states,"'Rape culture' is not a real thing". Rape culture is the acceptance and perpetuation of violence and sexualization towards women. It includes (but is not limited to) jokes, music, advertising, video games, laws, and even words that support violence and the subordination of women. I'll give an example. Though many do not know the root of the word, "hysterical" has a very dark and bloody past. It can be traced back to the late 4th-early 5th centuries. The root "hyster/o" refers to the uterus (hysterectomy is surgical removal of the uterus). Often, the word hysterical was used to describe women who were upset, blaming her emotions or "hysteria" on her uterus and her hormones. Women who supported the Declaration of Sentiments in the 19th century were called "hysterical" and forced to undergo a hysterectomy to rectify it. The continuation of this word perpetuates rape culture by saying, "She's just crazy because she has a uterus." It encourages violence and harm against women who stand up for themselves. This is the same with video games that allow rape. This is the same with laws that do not give women the same rights as men. This is the same with courts that protect rapists. Questions like "Well, what was she wearing?" perpetuate rape culture. We make excuses for rapists and ourselves instead of facing the problem and fixing it. We blame the victim so we don't have to blame ourselves for being a part of the problem. This is rape culture. Feminism is the belief this is wrong. It is the belief that we can change how we view and treat women. Feminism is essential in our current society because women are still not yet equal. We still teach girls never to leave a drink alone with a guy because he might roofie you. We teach girls never to walk home alone in case you are attacked. We teach girls to hold your key between your fingers in case you need to protect yourself. We teach girls that our education is less important that our male counterparts. We teach girls to cover up so we don't get blamed for their own rape. We teach girls not to get raped, instead of teaching boys not to rape. Until women are treated equally on paper and in the minds of people, feminism will still be necessary in America. http://www.wcsap.org... https://rainn.org... http://www.cw.ua.edu...-

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Modern-Feminism/3/