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  • PRO

    I have three main arguments against feminism: it's...

    Feminism is a form of sexism

    I have three main arguments against feminism: it's sexist, it makes sexism a dialectic problem when it is not, and it states that the feminine image is bad and that women should avoid it. Feminism is sexism This is the first and most significant argument. Sexism is discriminating by gender. As far as I'm concerned, that's what feminism does. Feminism is always fighting for the women's right but never for the men's. This is indeed discriminating men by its gender. Also, they state that all men are bad, and violent, and dominant, and oppressive, and so on, and so on, just for being men. Again, this is a way of sexism. Even the name is sexist. Feminism, that doesn't sounds like a movement looking for equity. And indeed, feminism is a one way movement. It only cares for women. I understand that women were more discriminated throughout history than men. Nevertheless, this isn't a valid argument to support discrimination towards men. What we really need is equity. Sexism isn't dialectic Feminists describe the sexism problem as dialect. They think of this problem as a war between men and women. However it is not like that. First, the relationship between men and women shouldn't be seen as a war. We need to dialogue and debate in order to achieve equity. Fighting isn't the way civilized people should act. Secondly, there's more than men and women in this problem. The gender spectrum is in this days better described, and thus more complex. There's not just men and women any more. There are transgenders, gays, lesbians, and more others. It is simplistic to describe sexism as men vs women. But again, this is another way to attack men. Feminine image is bad Another negative point of feminism is the systematic attack to the image of a woman being gentle, delicate, "feminine". They attack the women who are men dependant, who are housewives, and all what conforms the stereotype of women. I don't believe that all women should follow the stereotype. But also, I believe that women must have the opportunity to choose what they want. If they want to follow the stereotype, let them do it. If they want to be different, let them too. It's a matter of free will. However, feminists oppose to this and state that following the stereotype is wrong, and propose another way of being. Summarizing, what feminist do is limit the free will of women, making them change from one stereotype to another. As you can see, feminism is a movement which has negative effects to society. We must promote a movement of gender equity, one which ensures the protections of every gender's rights.

  • CON

    Implicit in socialist policies is the definition of...

    feminism is marxism

    "Your previous point as I understand it, is that Feminism is socialist but not Marxist." I never said that feminism was socialism, I just said whether it has those ideals or not, it is not Marxism. Feminism, even this Pro-woman type isn't even Socialism, that what equal outcomes for women, all women, rich, poor, middle-class, everyone. They want gender equality, socialists want class equality, it is different, Feminism may be based in a similar model, but that does not mean it is one and the same. "All socialism is Marxism. Socialism as a economic model is conditional on two primary pillars of Marxism; specifically the identification of unequal classes and the use of force to redistribute economic output." Uhh... false... Marx created a type of Socialism, so did 20 other major political philosophers, Socialism is a broad category, which contains Marxism, but is not limited to Marxism. In fact, Marx didn't even invent Socialism, Plato, in "Laws" talks of a socialist society being the most practical and just society, (Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy). Plato was not a Marxist, I don't think any sane human being would say that. Anyways, your point is moot, as feminism is not the same as socialism much less Marxism. "Whether that socialism is only 10% of the economy or 100%, it is still the forced redistribution of economic output. Whether you want to define the class as the proletariate [sic], economical disadvantaged, oppressed masses etc. it all boils down to the same thing: specifically that the state forces a transfer of economic output from one class to another. Note that whether or not the firm is worker owned or privately owned is irrelevant as the end result is the same." Again, false. Socialism and Capitalism are often mixed, as logically neither a truly pure free market or a truly pure socialist economy could exist. The fact that welfare exists does not give us a socialist economy, absolutely not. "While there are many theoretical and practical differences among the various forms of Marxism, most forms of Marxism share: * a belief that capitalism is based on the exploitation[5] of workers by the owners of capital * a belief that people's consciousness of the conditions of their lives reflects the dominant ideology which is in turn shaped by material conditions and relations of production * an understanding of class in terms of differing relations of production, and as a particular position within such relations * an understanding of material conditions and social relations as historically malleable * a view of history according to which class struggle, the evolving conflict between classes with opposing interests, structures each historical period and drives historical change * a belief that this dialectical historical process will ultimately result in a replacement of the current class structure of society with a system that manages society for the good of all, resulting in the dissolution of the class structure and its support (more often than not including the nation state)" That does not mean that socialism is Marxism, socialism came first, therefore we can say Marxism is a form of Socialism, but not that Socialism is Marxism. "In every point, feminism is fits the Marxist model. Point one: exploitation of women by men point two: feminist assault on family (read economic specialization necessitated when people have children) Point three: same as point two Point four: Mentioned in my previous post regarding the view of all things being caused by the environment (ie. patriarchy) Point five: Which wave of feminism are we in now? Point Six: Men and women are equal. The 'liberalism' that you mention." Even if it fits the Marxist model (a stretch) that does not mean it is Marxism. But, to disprove you even more: Point One: This is saying that capitalism causes men to exploit women, which is not true, capitalism is not usually blamed. Point Two: A feminist "assault" on the family has little to do with Point Two Point Three: A feminist "assault" on the family has little to do with Point Three Point Four: Patriarchy does not equal capitalism Point Five: Multiple waves are not exclusive to Marxism Point Six: Men and women being equal has nothing to do with Point Six "The current left are socialist and Marxists. They desire the redistribution of wealth and economic output and are willing to use the power of the state to enforce it. To argue that liberals and feminist in particular want equal opportunity is not correct. What they desire is equality of outcomes. This is not the same thing. Implicit in socialist policies is the definition of classes. Redistribution is designed to take from the 'haves' to the 'have nots' to the degree that the current powers are able to maintain political power." Some, but not all, in fact most are pretty solid capitalists. "In each of the socialist areas I mentioned in my previos post, a 'class' is identified and force is being placed to bear on other classes to provide the resources claimed by the 'disadvantaged class'." It doesn't make it socialism. "Whether a coup is successful without a shot does not mean it is not a coup. You argue there are meaningful differences between Marxism and Marxism light. At the end of the day, I see no differences." Feminism is Marxism light, where did that come from?

  • PRO

    Many modern day feminists like to attribute this to the...

    Feminism is no longer beneficial in America

    I apologize for not including sources; this is my first debate on this website and I thought that I was supposed to be making a "blanket opening statement" of sorts, if you will. 2. The wage gap is completely false. The original study used to generate the wage gap is extremely misleading; the wage gap all but vanishes when you factor in hours worked, rank, etc. [1]. There is a difference between "earn" and "pay". Men earn more than women, but they are not paid more than women. According to the CONSAD report concerning disparagement of women in the work place, women are less likely to seek higher paying jobs, apply for promotions, work as many hours, and even request raises [1]. Many modern day feminists like to attribute this to the so called "patriarchy"; however, no such thing exists. Women are more likely to victimize themselves than men [2], which leads to the internal feeling of oppression. As for the "promotion bias", just because men are more likely to be promoted, does not mean that there is a bias among employers; it is more likely that the men in question were simply more ambitious or prepared for the next rank up [1]. 3. My use of the word "juggernaut" was an implication of the cyber-lynch mob surrounding Many modern day feminists like to attribute this to the so called "patriarchy"; however, no such thing exists. Women are more likely to victimize themselves than men [2], which leads to the internal feeling of oppression. As for the "promotion bias", just because men are more likely to be promoted, does not mean that there is a bias among employers; it is more likely that the men in question were simply more ambitious or prepared for the next rank up [1]. 3. My use of the word "juggernaut" was an implication of the cyber-lynch mob surrounding feminism in the media; if you critique it publicly, you will be harassed. 1: Feminism was not a juggernaut in the media in the past because it was confined to television and public events - with the rise of social media, feminism has been able to spread rapidly across America. The term "media" is not the same today as it was in the past [3] [4] 2: Feminism is a juggernaut in the media. It is spreading lies so efficiently, that even the POTUS has quoted the false wage gap statistic [5]. Critiquing feminism will lead to harassment and possibly violence - as soon as feminism garners an outspoken opponent, they are berated and shunned. [6] [4] 3: Feminism being a juggernaut in the media is bad, because it negates any ability to critique it, which in turn is an imposition on censoring freedom of speech. 4: What 5: As I stated previously, feminism cannot be critiqued without repercussion. Thus, my justification for using the word "juggernaut". [4] [6] [7] 6: Feminism is not a unified group at all; rather it is made up of many subgroups who cannot seem to agree with one another on what constitutes "feminism". There are the man-haters [8], the whiners [9], and the intersectional feminists [10]. These groups (any many others) all claim to be the "true" feminists. That is a major no true Scotsman fallacy. 7: See 3 & 5 8: The feminists are imposing upon freedom of speech [2] [11], and physically assaulting people. [11] [12] [1] http://www.consad.com... [2] http://www.ukessays.com... [3] http://www.socialnomics.net... [4] [5] http://www.washingtonexaminer.com... [6] [7] https://books.google.com... [8] SCUM Manifesto (Valerie Solanas, 1967), p. 1 [9] [10] http://everydayfeminism.com...

  • CON

    This is my opening statement because I'm not debating...

    Is feminism necessary.

    This is my opening statement because I'm not debating this round. I believe that feminism isn't necessary and in our society it's just outdated.

  • PRO

    My opponent stated that the first definition of feminism...

    Feminism is about equality.

    I will be arguing against my opponent for the debate feminism is about equality. My opponent stated that the first definition of feminism is, "The theory of political, economic and social equality of the sexes." But what I'm wondering is, isn't that pro? I am excited to continue this debate. Thank you.

  • CON

    The rape topic yes woman are still raped in our society...

    Feminism

    I agree that feminism is needed in the middle east where they oppress women and beat them and publicly rape them but how can you say that single mothers are looked down upon when my sister is a single mother and she has the support of every single family and friend and person she talks to she tells us stories of men and women alike she does not even know tell her to be strong when they ask of the baby she's holding and the circumstances that she is going through I do not hate on feminists as I should specified radical feminists but from what I read I believe you to be. I am probably sure you have heard that a woman will make 77 cents for every dollar a man makes that study was pulled in from around the country and is actually what every single woman in the U.S. will make year round, that poll shows not the individual woman's earnings but the earnings of every woman in the U.S. compared to how much a man makes. The rape topic yes woman are still raped in our society but the rapists are put to trial and charged and sent to jail the words "rape culture" should not be used to describe how our society acts towards rape because like I said those rapists are sent to jail and for a very long time, women do not get shut out from help when they are a raped they can go to centers where they receive help and comfort and care and are loved. More men are raped in jail each year than women are. You say that "women deserve equal pay, respect, safety, and the ability to live your lives the way you want" show me an instance where the government has told a woman what to do and what job they should have or if they should have kids and how many they can have, that has never happened and when feminists say that woman are not allowed to do what they want they only make themselves believe this is true when in fact you are living in one of the freest countries in the world so tell me when you have heard of a girl being told how to live her life. You say that modern feminism is just as important as it was in the suffrage era. Well I don't think you understand that those women could not vote or own property I want to know in the past 80 years where a woman wasn't aloud to vote or own property because she didn't have the right to since the suffrage era women in the U.S. have been the freest in the history of the world. Today in our society you wont see woman being married like business deals because that is what they used to do, you will not see a woman being sold off into slavery legally I should add. Don't bring up ISIS they have nothing to do with this, that being said and getting back to the topic at hand I have had 0 bad experiences with a feminist I see videos online harassing men's rights activists such as Milo Yiannopoulos and others a group of women sat outside a classroom at a local college and yelled and screamed and eventually pulled the fire alarm just to disrupt them and make them stop yet when a single man standing in a classroom video taping a feminism 101 class being silent and polite was shamed on and the teachers told the class to willingly go and block the camera so they could not see what was going on. Women and feminism has turned from equality to wanting to be at a higher pedestal than men in our society when in fact you should want equality and you can say you want equality but from what I have seen and heard from feminists around the country is that you want to be better and want to put men down. My mother has passed may she rest in peace but I see the point your making and if I saw a female family member being harassed for the reasons you say they are I would be outraged and would gladly stand by her side but I have never had my aunt, sister, or any family member tell me that they are being oppressed in our society that the employer said turned down a job offer cause she is a single mother Just for the record I am 14 this has nothing to do with what we are debating about but would just like to state this and make sure you don't mistake me for a misogynistic dirty old man who hates women. I am no sexist but I do hate radical feminist with a fiery passion just as any sensible person should. "good is good enough, the wage gap isn't that big anyway" People like this don't know they're facts and that the wage gap is just a poorly misjudged piece of information that the feminists hold onto to use as a reason for attention and a reason complain and stay relevant.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Feminism/19/
    • score
      BM25 score: 22.45
      feminism: 22.45
      conclusion: 13.44 (boost 1.50, idf 5.97, tfNorm 1.50)
      premises: 7.11 (idf 5.90, tfNorm 1.21)
      sourceText: 1.90 (boost 0.20, idf 4.68, tfNorm 2.03)
  • PRO

    In this debate, I will be arguing that feminism is not...

    Feminism Does Not Equate to Equality

    In this debate, I will be arguing that feminism is not only overrated and irrelevant in most situations (particularly societal ones), but also has nothing to do with gender equality. Definitions: Feminism does not seek equality between both genders, but to give back everything women were denied.

  • CON

    That is the thing, we are not the same, our brains work...

    Feminism

    Is Feminism really for equality? I mean, I know the concept that 'females are seen as the weaker sex' or that 'females and males should be treated the same way'. That is the thing, we are not the same, our brains work differently, we are born differently, our personalities are different, our conduct is different, our styles are different, there are many things that are different. Now, what I want to know is, how are men superior? I mean, sure they (some males) have more (physical) power than females because that's just the way it is, it does NOT automatically make females weaker than them. If there are areas where men specialize in, then there are areas where females specialize in as well, rather than running after their position, why not see what females already have and work further to improve them?

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Feminism/27/
    • score
      BM25 score: 22.43
      feminism: 22.43
      conclusion: 13.44 (boost 1.50, idf 5.97, tfNorm 1.50)
      premises: 7.13 (idf 5.90, tfNorm 1.21)
      sourceText: 1.86 (boost 0.20, idf 4.68, tfNorm 1.99)
  • CON

    It seems to have been repurposed, and that is what has...

    Western feminism has failed

    Well the debate is Western feminism has failed not modern feminism has failed. My opponent claims "Women now have equal rights, but feminism is still here. It seems to have been repurposed, and that is what has failed about it" this is not the case there is still huge amounts of discrimination directed towards women, and even today in western culture women are not treated as equal for example women currently only hold 5.2 percent of Fortune 500 CEO roles (1), new figures released 2 days ago by the Australian Bureau of Statistics show that, on average, full-time working women"s earnings are 17.1% less per week than full-time working men"s earnings (a difference that equates to $262.50 per week) (2), In Australia, 13 Australian women have reportedly been killed as a result of domestic violence in the first seven weeks of 2015, that"s almost two women per week, as opposed to 0 men (3). As it is obvious there is still a huge need for feminism as already stated feminism is the advocacy of equal rights between the sexes and as we may not be there yet feminism has certainly got society on track to getting equality for all and again has certainly not failed but there is indeed still more work ahead. source: 1. https://www.google.com.au... 2.https://www.wgea.gov.au... 3.http://www.womensagenda.com.au...

  • CON

    I lost all respect for feminists, and feminism in...

    Feminism is morally good

    I lost all respect for feminists, and feminism in general, once they embraced abortion. I believe abortion to be morally wrong; therefore, feminism, a movement that supports abortion, is morally wrong. This is the point i'll be arguing. I am entirely for equal rights.