PRO

  • PRO

    38% of rape victims are men https://www.forbes.com... and...

    feminism NEEDS to be stopped

    I should rename the debate "Feminism is Bad" lets just consider that the title, ok. first off women have achieved equality in every way 1. equal pay https://www.eeoc.gov... and https://www.forbes.com... 2. feminists will bring up "catcalling" but catcallers are looked down upon. 3. more men die in war then women 4. we do not live in a rape culture, men who are even FALSELY accused of rape will have their reputation and lives ruined, and men who DID rape women go to prison and are looked down upon by society, and their fellow inmates (hope he doesnt drop the soap) 5. 38% of rape victims are men https://www.forbes.com... and men are less likely to report it 6. when a man says he was raped by a women everyone thinks it is ridiculous 7. if you really want gender equality then why cant a man hit a women back? men cant in our society, and if a man hits another man they will get the living sh*t beat out of him. give me some proof that women ARENT treated equaly (in america) also i know that you will most likely forfeit this debate, a feminist tactic, when feminists are proven wrong they just run away and are offended

  • PRO

    If a woman does not like how the education system is run,...

    American Feminism is Going too Far

    "I love that example of Henry VIII because it is so completely ignorant of the fact that one cannot simply kill a king. Yes technically his wives could have murdered him in his sleep, but they would have been executed for it." I hope you know they would have been executed regardless. Catherine Howard and Anne Boleyn were beheaded. Out of all six wives only Catherine Parr made it out alive. Your argument is invalid as everyone, not just women, should and must fight for what they want. Every culture, individual, etc, has and will continue to do so as unfortunate as that is, that's life and if you can't take a good beating in this society that's on you to fight back and get what you believe you deserve. Things are not simply "given". Good morals is not a language everyone speaks, unfortunately. As far as your cute sexual harassment summary, carry some pepper spray, a taser, and a mobile phone. If they didn't want to be "harassed" they should have stopped it right away, not lead it on. This would be a lovely time to bring up Bill Cosby and his sexual encounters. Did these grad students really think a seventy year old man inviting them to a hotel room was going to give them a jigsaw puzzle? It's extremely easy to turn a man down, if that's what you want. Abortion, contraceptive use, discrimination in academia, and sexual harassment are issues on their own. I too am one hundred percent on-board with these rights given to everyone, however, this is not feminism going too far. Feminism going too far is when groups of women ask for too much, too soon, and all at once, when in the not-so-distant past they didn't try very hard for their rights, which is horrible, because it effects all of us women, myself included. Abortion is legal in a number of states and if a woman did not want to conceive she should have abstained or used contraceptives. Discrimination in academia is illegal, you can't get turned down or fall behind men because you are a woman, it just doesn't work that way. If a woman does not like how the education system is run, file a report, and give those in question a reason not to turn you away from anything. The reason I say feminism is going too far also, is that I know as individuals us women can get what we want if we work for it. If we keep asking for everything, that automatically makes us the weaker class, the second class. Being an angry feminist using only your words for equality is going to get you nowhere fast. Making children cuss in commercials for equality (https://youtu.be...) is absurd. Women asking for society to change their view points on topics they have already established is ridiculous. If you want a change, do that change for yourself. There's no reason why someone can't. To me, I think it's unfortunate how much attention these kinds of women get when the real attention should be going to somewhere much more beneficial. Women want a double standard that ceases to exist. They want to be treated like "ladies" but undermine the male race. If you want to be completely independent, by all means go ahead. However, you can't ask to be treated like men but also be treated like women if you want to erase the line between genders. http://time.com...

  • PRO

    many instances of unjust violence are associated with the...

    Feminism is necessary in modern day United States.

    I will start the round with my main points, defending them if necessary, then go on to address my opponents points. I start off with the logic that if there is substantial inequality against women in any of the following grounds, social, political or economic, feminism is inherently necessary to maintain a just nation. This point is logically valid, as any injustice should warrant a people's movement to erect it. I will prove that there is indeed specifically political and economic injustice which warrants feminist movements. Point 1) Women are paid substantially less then men in contemporary US, therefore warranting feminist movements. From the AAUW, in 2014, women working full time are paid 79% of men's average wages. My opponent attacks this claim by stating that men are more likely to pursue STEM jobs, which pay more. I agree with that, but that actually proves my point. Men are more likely to pursue stem jobs. That itself should be changed and is an injustice. Women need to be empowered to take those stem jobs, hence warranting feminist movements. Also, my opponent states that maternity leave accounts for the pay gap. This is another injustice that feminism movements should try to overturn. Childbirth and infancy is a difficult time for women, and the government should offer some form of subsidy to help women instead of cutting pay. Furthermore, my statistic doesn't even account for maternity leave as it only deals with full time working women, therefore, my opponents point is irrelevant. As conclusion, women working full time are paid less then men, this suggests an economic inequality in society that warrants feminist movements to counter it. Point 2) Women are underrepresented in the government. Daily Kos. com states that women account for 51% of population but only 17% of Congress. This is stated in Senator Gillibrand's diary. This percentage of women serving in government is extremely low. In comparison, countries like Burundi, South Africa, Rwanda, Uganda and South Sudan have a higher percentage of women in government. Furthermore, all countries listed above are from Africa, bear that in mind. Also, even Afghanistan has a greater percentage of women in government than the US. This shows that the United States has an unequal representation of women in the government. This form of inequality must be amended by feminist movements. Point 3) Societal norms enforce inequality against women. Boundless.com states that In the U.S., masculine roles are usually associated with strength, aggression, and dominance, while feminine roles are associated with passivity, nurturing, and subordination. These societal expectations enforce stereotyping which in turn leads to sexism. Gender roles are also often reinforced, leading to phenomenon my opponent actually brought up such as women being less likely to pursue STEM jobs. Thus, social norms that stereotype against women must be brought down, and feminism is a means to accomplish this. Thus feminism is necessary in the modern United States. The bulk of my opponents arguments are claims against specific feminists and feminist movements. I agree that certain feminists are taking the movement too far, and that is not beneficial to societal well being, but one cannot take specific instances and generalize them towards a movement as a whole. For example. many instances of unjust violence are associated with the African American suffrage campaign such as the Black panthers, a militant group that depended on violence to enforce black rights. One cannot use a specific group or act such as the Black panthers (Marxists.org) and label the whole act as "unnecessary". I understand that my opponents cites multiple acts and people, but even so, she offers no statistic on exactly what percent of feminists are radical. Since you cannot use specific people to brand an act as necessary or unnecessary, my opponents main offense falls. Furthermore, my opponent states that we should focus our efforts on other countries and that US feminist movements are diverting the attention. But as you look at my statistic, many African countries actually have more women in the government then US and the United States desperately needs to catch up in terms of gender equality. In conclusion, economic, political and social inequality inherently warrants feminism if we are to pursue a just United States. I conclude my arguments with a summary. There are social, political and economic injustices in the American society. Feminism is needed to counteract those injustices. Even though certain feminists were radical and unjust, we cannot brand the entire movement as unnecessary on the basis of those few individuals. Because I feel like gender inequality is prevalent in the modern United States, it is necessary.

  • PRO

    The troubles with this study are threefold: it focused on...

    Modern Day Feminism Has No Legitimacy.

    Much thanks to marxian_ginger for agreeing to this debate. Best of luck to him/her. Let me start by clarifying that I am not a "men's rights activist". I do not believe men or women are oppressed in today's society, contrary to the claims of feminists and anti-feminists. I am just a rational person who looks at the ridiculous claims of modern feminism as grossly over exaggerated. How does hyperbole help women? As of today, there are no laws in the US that unfairly benefit men over women, there is no culture of sexual harassment that supports the harm of women, and, of course, women do not earn less money than men for the same work. Therefore, any debate over feminism will have to revolve around the societal benefits men have over women, and vice versa. I keep hearing this figure that one in five women in college have been raped, even though this claim has been decisively debunked for years. The flawed survey that produced this statistic is the "Campus Sexual Assault Study" commissioned by the DOJ in 2005. The troubles with this study are threefold: it focused on two (that's right, two) four year universities; it had an extraordinarily low turnout rate (about 42%); and it's definition of sexual assault was overly broad- including things like unwanted kissing on a first date. And yet my professors still teach it like it's true! This lie is hurting our capacity to find real statistics. I'd like to know whether or not my opponent believes that a lack of evidence for something means that you can fabricate your own evidence, as this seems to be the case with modern feminism. How about the claim that our nation is run by men? Yes, I will admit that a large number of our politicians, scientists, and business executives are male. I'd like to put forward the radical notion that this does not mean women are oppressed by society. Male politicians were the ones who gave women the right to vote, the right to have a job, the right to attend college, and the right to an abortion. Are you saying that we, as a nation, are more sexist than a bunch of old white guys in the 60s and 70s? Male scientists and doctors provide health services that everyone enjoys, especially women. Are you going to argue that because every gynecologist and obstetrician at your hospital is a man, that means medical employment is sexist? Business executives employ millions of women in this country (many times, simply because they are a woman). Unless my opponent can offer concrete evidence of sexism occurring in these fields, I fail to see how this is any different from saying: "they're all men, so they must be sexist!"; isn't this assuming something without evidence? And even if my opponent could offer said evidence, that wouldn't mean that the system was rigged to disadvantage women! All it would show is one old man in that field happens to be sexist. And really, this doesn't matter, because there are currently more women enrolled in college than men. By the time most of these feminists graduate, these men will be retired or dead, and their jobs will be open for the taking. The claimed objectification of women in the media. I think this one is my favorite. The people who complain about the sexualization of female characters in movies are the same people who go to see an action flick with overly aggressive male characters and say nothing. Isn't feminism about equality? Why don't they protest the objectification of all people in movies? Because it doesn't fit the narrative of oppression. Feminists moan about how Barbie dolls teach girls that skinny means beautiful, but do they care that He-man and GI Joes tell boys that violence makes you "manly"? Not in the least, not even when we know that men are four times more likely to commit suicide than women. Could it be because our culture tells boys that emotions make you weak? How much more psychologically damaging can you get? Where's "gender equality" on that one? At the end of the day, we need to recognize the society in which we live. A society that tells little boys "ladies first" isn't a patriarchy. A society where a woman wins the custody of her children in 84% of divorce cases can't be sexist, nor a society where women can vote without entering the draft. In this country, women are vastly more likely to avoid incarceration than men, and even then, they usually get lower sentences. I'd like to know whether or not my opponent thinks the fact that the vast majority of American prisoners are men is sexist. Men greatly outnumber women in combat and workplace deaths, mental illness per capita, and murders. Is this a part of the "male privilege" I keep hearing about? How about the fact that domestic violence victims are nearly 40% male, and yet they are denied service at most taxpayer funded shelters? Women and girls in the Middle East and Africa are being murdered, raped, and tortured in the name of Islam, and feminists have the arrogance to protest bras and catcalling? Seriously? Thank you.

  • PRO

    There are many gender roles that still exist into today's...

    Feminism Does Not Equal Hate for Me

    Sorry about the forefit. Didn't have a computer. Now the thing is each feminist is different. There are also a lot of male feminist. To be a feminist means you are open to the idea of destroying the idea of the patriarchy. In doing this, you are freeing both men and women from the restraints put of them. There are many gender roles that still exist into today's society and a real feminist fights to remove all of them. Not to mention hating men doesn't help the feminist agenda. It merely makes feminists look insane. There are some feminist that think men are evil and of course, this isn't true. Yes, there are male killers and rapists but that doesn't mean every single man is evil. In order to be a feminist, you have to realize that mean suffer under the gender roles and the patriarchy as much as women do. The core of feminism is and should always be to try to abolish hurtful gender roles and pave a new path for the future.

  • PRO

    The problems my family and friends have had are the...

    Modern Feminism

    As you have presented absolutely no evidence to support any of your claims, I have no choice but to disregard them as fabricated. For the sake of the debate, however, I will provide my final argument and a rebuttal disproving the arguments you have concocted. 1: Women in Government/Capability- The PEW Research Center conducted a study on why there are not more women in government positions, finding that "topping the list of reasons, about four-in-ten Americans point to a double standard for women seeking to climb to the highest levels of either politics or business, where they have to do more than their male counterparts to prove themselves." Women are considered as less intelligent as men, a theory based in a centuries old practice of preventing female education. Time Magazine has found that, contradicting that theory, more women enter the workforce with four years of college or more than men. Men are generally paid more and awarded more prestigious jobs than women as a commanding man is viewed as a confident while a commanding woman is considered a bitch. Naomi Wolff, a feminist activist, found that "Young women, especially, suffer from discrimination in the workplace when they are seen as “too” aesthetically appealing. Many workplaces channel conventionally attractive young women into out-front support, or subordinate, jobs, in which their appearance – as they bring coffee to high-status men in meetings – can add value to the corporate “brand,” though no value is being added to their own careers." A woman's competency is not taken into evaluation nearly as much as her looks, creating a double standard between men and women. This double standard exists in government as well as regular companies. Let me remind you that when Hillary announced her presidential campaign, everyone was up in arms questioning her ability to adequately run with a single grandchild on the way. The very same people were ready and willing to vote for Romney in 2012, despite his litter of grandchildren. The double standard is clearly visible between these two candidates, and exists all throughout government. 2: American Female Objectification Objectification is not an illusion women have created. These advertisements are an objectification, sexualizing women's bodies to sell their product, yes, but to draw the eyes of men. Have you ever noticed how many clothing advertisements exhibit photos of half-naked, or completely naked women? Have you ever noticed how many ads feature women's bodies cutting out the head so the focus is the breasts or the butt? That right there is an example of how women's bodies are used to the appeal of society. I will agree that periodically there are ads containing the same material using a male model, but this ad is much less frequent and often ignored next to it's female counterpart or competitor. Your argument that "As for a 12 year old wearing yoga pants, that is an issue with their parents, parents should not let their daughters walk around dressed like that if they are at all concerned about that," plays into the sexualization of women starting at a very young age. Here you are agreeing that 12 year old girls in yoga pants is too sexy and too revealing, and thus is wrong. You are perpetuating the problem by sexualizing a 12 year old girl. That right there is objectification. The problems my family and friends have had are the result of this same mindset. You proved my point that objectification exists when you said her parents should never have let her out of the house. Using your logic of "but it most likely was you at fault" if the very same 12 year old girl in yoga pants was assaulted by the 50 year old man, would he get off Scot-free? She brought it onto herself by wearing yoga pants right? Your entire argument is worthless as you have proved my point of the existence of objectification. 3: Respect- Contrary to (apparently) popular belief women do not receive "copious" amounts of respect. This argument ties into my previous argument in the existence of objectification and sexualization, as people do not often give adequate respect to things they see as objects. Until women are not objectified and are afforded the same opportunities in the workplace, we will not have equal respect. 4: Rape/Rape Culture- I believe you may have never actually considered the concept of feminism. A feminist is a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes. Often, feminists are associated solely with women's rights as that is the main concern. Women are treated far less equally than men, but that does not mean men deserve nothing. We understand male rape exists. Contrary to what you may believe, or what you have heard, but feminists do not exclude or condone male rape. We do not excuse it, or believe it does not exist. Female rape is committed far more often. Using a statistic from the Washington Coalition of Sexual Assault Programs, its known that, "Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes." Male rape, though not less important, occurs much less often according to a statistic from the National Crime Victimization Survey, "In asking 40,000 households about rape and sexual violence, the survey uncovered that 38 percent of incidents were against men." Feminism does not discount these crimes against men. Often, feminist organizations try to help these male victims. This practice is just less prevalent and not as well known as male rape is no where near as common as female rape. According to the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network, "1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime" as well as the fact that "15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12." These statistics show how prevalent rape is in our culture. Though you may not know it, you more than likely know multiple women who have been raped or assaulted. These rapists, though it does happen, are not always "committed by a criminal, typically in a bad place at a bad time". In fact, about 4/5 rapes are committed by someone the victim knows and about 47% are committed by a friend. This victim blaming, which you have just done, Concerning street harassment, "98% of women surveyed in 2008 reported that they had experienced cat-calling and harassment.” though 2008 was several years ago, this number has not changed much, if at all. this harassment has been shown to cause depression as it weakens self worth and self actualization, a basic human need according to Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Cat calling can induce stress, which over a period of time can lead to hypertension, weight gain or loss, nausea, chronic pain, and depression. Predatory stress can cause inflammation of the brain in several different locations. Cat calling can actually lead to physical sickness from fear and stress. 5: Hysterical: I do admit that forced hysterectomies do not occur much in the United States in this century. this does not mean they never happened. This does not mean it is okay because it doesn't happen anymore. The history of the word and its continued use is what perpetuated the idea of violence towards women. Even if the procedure is no longer practiced, the idea is still around. 6: Conclusion- As none of your “facts” have any substance and no backup whatsoever, I have no option to but assume they are fabricated. Please do not throw empty assumptions at your opponent if you have absolutely no fact to base it in. I would like to reiterate the fact that feminism is not an evil, “man-hating” belief. We are a group of people, both men and women, invested in the complete equality of all people. We are not a violent group. We simply believe in equality. 7: Sources- https://rainn.org... http://www.wcsap.org... http://www.huffingtonpost.com... https://thebiocheminist.wordpress.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Modern-Feminism/3/
  • PRO

    I have actually proven that Males do apply for more...

    On balance, Feminism is not needed in the US anymore.

    Okay, I really do not get the logic behind involving other countries in this debate. The resolution states "On balance, Feminism is not needed in the US anymore." I specifically stated US, because I do realize that feminism is needed in other areas around the world. To say that it isn't is being na"ve and ignorant. You did not explain why the resolution includes other countries, and gave no examples of how the wording includes other countries. Defense: [1] Sex, Domestic Violence and Rape: Numbers that my opponent used: 50,000 women are trafficked into the US each year. This is a global sex trade, and involves other countries that we do not know about, and probably places where feminism is needed. 23 women a week are killed by intimates. The source you list first of all list for this evidence is a blog made in 2010. The year is 2016 which means 6 years have gone by since this has happened. The Washington Post article you also sourced was an opinion article with no evidence to back it up. Between 14,500 and 17,500 people are trafficked into the U.S. each year. https://www.dosomething.org... This proves that your source is outdated, and therefore unreliable to argue with. Con also gone to say that there have been 182,000 sexual assaults committed against women in 2008. Con than says the actual number is 1 million which is a really broad study, and as my opponent has noted. There are different ways to say different things that can mean different things to another. There are 125.9 million women in America. https://en.wikipedia.org... 182,000 women = 0.146% of the women in America. 1 million women=0.8% This debate is about balance. I think these numbers speak for it selves. If 182,000 women are being raped, than that means that 124,818,000 women are not being raped. If 1 million women are being raped, than that means that 124 million women are not being raped. You can clearly see that there is a unstable balance with more women not being raped winning the scales. This resolution specifically states "On balance". I think that 0.8% does not weigh the scales at all. C2. In the Workplace "Many people want to argue that the "Wage Gap" simply doesn"t exist. In fact, it still does. Many people want to argue that the reasoning has to do with degrees, and positions. It has been proven on multiple occasions that Men and Women who have the same degree, and work the same job, Women still earn less." Okay, you still have done nothing to dispute the facts that I listed in the last argument. You have not disputed: Males are far more likely to chose dangerous careers Males are far more likely to work in higher paying jobs Men work longer hours than women Men are likely to pursue high-stress and higher paid areas WOMEN BUSINESS OWNERS make LESS THAN HALF of what male business owners make. Than my opponent moves on to how Iraq has better representation of women which is clearly false. First of all, Iraq is a broken government with terrorist groups such as Al-Quada in it. America has 320 million people, and as I have said men go for higher paying jobs which Con has not disputed. A good representation of this is that only 2 women Hilary Clinton and Carly Fiorina were running in a presidential race dominated by men. Carly Fiorina dropped out leaving Hilary the only one. "Thanks to the pay gap, women struggle to pay off student loan debt even more than men do. The pay gap has barely budged in a decade. At the current rate, the gap won"t close for more than 100 years. Women in every state experience the pay gap, but in some states it"s worse than others" In order for me to believe this, first of all give statistics on what jobs females apply for. All you have proven is that females apply for jobs with less pay. I have actually proven that Males do apply for more dangerous, and higher paying jobs. You also said 15% of women are in Fortune 500 companies which means that 85% of males make up Fortune 500 companies. That is going to make a significant impact on that 70 cent argument. Con also tries to talk about other countries which this resolution does not talk about. I agree feminism is needed in other areas, but not in America.

  • PRO

    I am against modern day feminism because its ideology is...

    Feminism is a flawed ideology and has made women much more miserable

    Let me clarify that by feminism, I mean modern day feminism. As I said in the comment section, I am a big fan of the feminist movement of the past which advocated for women suffrage. I am against modern day feminism because its ideology is no longer equality for women. It has the ideology of women are better than men. Feminists want equality for everything fun. Why don't feminists talk about the existing benefits they get over men? Why don't they protest for women's rights in Islamic Sharia run countries which have a greater need of women's rights than America, India or Britain? Why don't feminists fight for equality in construction and sewer disposal jobs which is by far the most male-dominated field of work in the world? Why are feminists against the draft of women for the military? Why do feminists advocate that breastfeeding isn't natural for women? Above all, Why do feminists think that males giving them protection are sexist? If you want equality, Then fight for equality in all fields, Stop being a hypocrite and stop putting tailor-made demands forward. Stop being dismissive and argue with an open mind. The ball's in your court.

  • PRO

    Feminism needs to move to another country, maybe middle...

    The west doesn't need feminism, it needs to move

    Feminism needs to move to another country, maybe middle east, maybe any other 3rd world country. Pro will argue it's true Con will argue it's false Rounds 1) Acceptance 2) Opinion 3) Rebuttals 4) Defense Rules 1) No trolling 2) No raging 3) No ad hominem 4) No profanity 5) No forfeiting 6) Use Sources 7) Use Evidence Good luck with the debate.

  • PRO

    I am a Male Modern feminist and i would love to debate...

    Modern feminism is beneficial to America, and does not cause harm.

    I am a Male Modern feminist and i would love to debate this topic, i accept. my only concerns for this debate is that con does not use radicals as examples of the harmful feminists. here are the list of topics i define as third wave feminism: -anti-rape culture -abortion rights -sexual harrassment against women -other societal issues and we should define "harm" as immoral or unjust effects.

CON

  • CON

    I'll be the first to agree that there are elements of the...

    Feminism is a flawed ideology and has made women much more miserable

    Nice job moving the goalpost. Guess you can't defend your own topic. Once again there are multiple versions of feminism. I wasn't talking about the 1920's. I mean those versions exist today. There is no "modern feminism" You're trying to lump all feminist in with a couple of extreme feminists that you don't like. You claim that modern feminists want to be better than men. That is categorically false. Most feminists want equality and they're quite verbose about it. Where is your proof that ALL feminists want to be better than men. I'm waiting. . . . I'll be the first to agree that there are elements of the modern civil rights movement that I don't like. But you're assessment is not even remotely accurate. There is nothing wrong with wanting equality and you don't get to act like you're a mind reader and say that feminists want something that they don't even say they want. Before you even try to put up some kind of strawman, I'm going to put that to a stop early. Don't even try to quote some individual feminist that you don't like or some tiny group that has an extreme version of But you're assessment is not even remotely accurate. There is nothing wrong with wanting equality and you don't get to act like you're a mind reader and say that feminists want something that they don't even say they want. Before you even try to put up some kind of strawman, I'm going to put that to a stop early. Don't even try to quote some individual feminist that you don't like or some tiny group that has an extreme version of feminism. You either prove that all current feminists subscribe the way you say, Or your argument is garbage. Your floor.

  • CON

    I am sure that most readers are familiar with the words...

    modern day feminism does more good than harm

    Modern day feminism does more harm than good, and within my speech I will prove this. Feminism may have started out as a good cause, fighting for equality and women's rights. But modern day feminism is focused on female supremacy and the hatred of man. "Apparently, mysogyny is reprehensible and evil but misandry is virtuous and laudable. I could probably list 1,000 quotes from leading feminist theorists that are extraordinarily offensive and deeply sexist. If the same feminist quotes were altered such that the word "man" was changed to "woman", the quotes in question would be construed as horrifyingly sexist. I am sure that most readers are familiar with the words of Andrea Dworkin and Catherine MacKinnon to the effect that all men are rapists, and that heterosexual sex is nothing short of rape. I should add that according to many feminists, men who consume pornography are at the very least "rapists-in-training." I wonder how we might go about reproducing given that heterosexual mating is apparently "violently penetrative." I suppose that with the advances of artificial insemination, men are disposable (some feminists have incidentally argued for this position). Or perhaps men might learn to inseminate women via "no touch" tantric sex. Alternatively, we can explore the possibilities of human cloning as a means of extending our genes. Anything will do as long as we eradicate "penetrative heterosexual mating" from the repertoire of human sexuality," says Gad Saad, Ph.D. He sums up my point clearly. Feminism has turned into an act of man-hate and an idea of female superiority, and that is why it does more harm than good. Thank you, and I look forward to the next round.

  • CON

    In the United States of America, the government have...

    Feminism is necessary in modern day United States.

    In the United States of America, the government have given both men and women the same rights, but feminists are still rampant. This would not be a big if the feminist stuck to their morals, but while the dictionary definition of feminism is the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men, individual feminists have demonstrated otherwise and have turned this once proud movement into a cult.

  • CON

    If the problem is to be addressed, then it is men who...

    Humanism > Feminism

    I sincerely apologize if my argument didn't make much sense. I have a habit of turning ideas into long-winded walls of text so I will explain it more reasonably here. My comparison of racism to sexism is based on the notion that we don't really know what a problem is until it becomes a problem. We live our lives without worrying about what ills other people are exposed to until it starts to affect us directly or indirectly. It doesn't matter if Feminists are correct or incorrect in their assumptions of their being unequal to men, what matters is that they felt the need to speak up about it so that society will possibly open their eyes to a potential problem. If they didn't, society would be non-the-wiser about a potential problem. This applies for ALL problems, not just sexism. All of the problems feminist's claim to have are directed towards men because it is men that they blame for the source of the problems. If the problem is to be addressed, then it is men who must realize what's going on and to work with women on fixing the problem. So it is, in essence, the humanitarian action that you would want. Even if men are not the true source of women's problems, it's just a technical issue as it still raises awareness of women's rights and the expectations placed upon them. All publicity is good publicity sort of thing. I do agree with you that humanity should focus on solving our problems as quickly as possible without placing blame or pointing fingers. The blame game is one that I deeply despise since it solves nothing and only creates conflict. However, women who talk about the social issues they face are often told to stop complaining or stop blaming men for all their problems and most of the time, that isn't a fair thing to say. If they don't speak up, no one will know. As easy as it is to say we should deal with social issues as an equal society, we must first become an equal society. It isn't impossible either, it will just take these types of movements to slowly change our global society into a better one. What you want will happen eventually, maybe on a smaller scale, but it will, we just have to keep encouraging people to speak up and be heard so the hidden problems can surface now, rather than later. I thank my opponent for this interesting debate. Hopefully I was able to show how If the problem is to be addressed, then it is men who must realize what's going on and to work with women on fixing the problem. So it is, in essence, the humanitarian action that you would want. Even if men are not the true source of women's problems, it's just a technical issue as it still raises awareness of women's rights and the expectations placed upon them. All publicity is good publicity sort of thing. I do agree with you that humanity should focus on solving our problems as quickly as possible without placing blame or pointing fingers. The blame game is one that I deeply despise since it solves nothing and only creates conflict. However, women who talk about the social issues they face are often told to stop complaining or stop blaming men for all their problems and most of the time, that isn't a fair thing to say. If they don't speak up, no one will know. As easy as it is to say we should deal with social issues as an equal society, we must first become an equal society. It isn't impossible either, it will just take these types of movements to slowly change our global society into a better one. What you want will happen eventually, maybe on a smaller scale, but it will, we just have to keep encouraging people to speak up and be heard so the hidden problems can surface now, rather than later. I thank my opponent for this interesting debate. Hopefully I was able to show how Feminism (at it's heart) at least leads to their definition of Humanism, if it is not already apart of it.

  • CON

    It has seen the liberation of the previously suppressed...

    Is Feminism unnecessary in the USA these days (pro=yes) (con=no)

    Feminism has been a great thing through out history. It has seen the liberation of the previously suppressed sex, led to equality, and even made improvements to all of our lives. This movement may have lost sight of its goal, it may have turned to hate on the internet, but this only shows that we need to help and nurture this movement for civil liberties. I look forward to talking about this subject.

  • CON

    Nepal: Only 25% of women are enrolled in higher education...

    Feminism Needs to die out

    The treatment of India is not the only reason why women are standing up for themselves; I only mentioned one just to give an idea/example of how women are being treated and a few others like physical and verbal violence, rape, buried alive; I mentioned them previously. Pro tells me that most feminism is happening in places where they weren't treated badly, but you haven't given me the names of these type of places. From what I know, most places like India, Yemen, Iraq, Nepal, Peru, Turkey, Afghanistan, Democratic Republic of Congo, Mali, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and America. Seems like a lot of countries to me; twelve countries in total. India : As I've mentioned before, new born daughters are buried alive or even aborted before birth; women have been treated with disgust by men, and reports show that thousands of women get raped Yemen: Access to education for girls is very limited, and many of them are married before the age of eighteen, Iraq: The Iraq War didn't improve the lives of women, and over the past thirty years, the number of women in the workforce has dropped down. Nepal: Only 25% of women are enrolled in higher education institutions; Nepal is one of the only world's countries where women's lifespans are less than that of men whereas throughout the world, women typically have a larger lifespan than men( I'm not trying to degrade men, but this is a fact). Education is not even considered as a norm for a Nepalese women, but marriage is and their lives have been dictated by their husbands, fathers or sons. Peru: 61% of women have been victims of physical abuse, and according to the World Health Organization, 52% of women have been slapped by their partner. Turkey: Only 29% of Turkish women are employed whilst 70% of males are, majority of the women are doing unpaid work, such as housework or childcare. Afghanistan: Probably one of the worst countries where women have been treated severely; Afghan women have been imprisoned due to running away from their abusive husbands, in 2013, violence grew against women in power, and there was an assassination attempt on a female member working in the parliament. Human Rights Watch report claims that things are getting worse for Afghan women. Democratic Republic of Congo: Now this country isn't just a dangerous place for women but for all citizens. Rape and sexual assault are common for the soldiers' aims to intimidate and threaten people. Daily Beast's ranking of best countries for women gave this nation a very low score: 13.6 out of 100. Mali: It is one of the world's poorest countries; where only a few females escape from genital mutiliation, one in ten of women in Mali die in pregnancy or childbirth, as many of them are into forced marriages when young. Saudi Arabia: Some things have improved in Saudi Arabia, such as giving the right for women to vote and allowing them to finally drive. However segregation against women still occurs such as not being allowed to leave the house without a partner or not being allowed to enter the Jannatul Baqee cemetery. Jordan: Women do not have an equal economic opportunity or participation and the unemployment of women is double the amount of men who are employed. America: Both women and men face rape and sexual assault, however women face more; 90 of females face rape whilst men only face 10 percent. Researchers have even shown that every 2 minutes an American is faced with sexual assault. So now you can see as to why feminism has shown a rapid growth among women?

  • CON

    Couple this with centuries of suppression and denial of a...

    Feminism is a poisonous belief system that needs to be done away with.

    Hello again! Thank you for your rebuttal. Firstly, when you say something like: "Every single issue that was brought up by you could be solved by egalitarianism."I could not agree more. You and I seem to be having serious differecnces about the definitions of some key words in this debate so I will clarify them again for you: 1. Feminism: It is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. 2.Equality: the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, or opportunities I am saying that historically and all over the world feminism is an attempt at gender equality.A few feminists in western countries where feminism has already succeded in bringing gender equality to a certain degree may make absurd claims at times, but this does not reflect reality all over the globe, nor does it change the definition of Feminism itself. 1.Nature of equality I assert that giving support to someone who is suffering from a serious handicap is an attempt at equality.For example,building a ramp or reserving a special parking lot for someone suffering from an disability is not special treatment, but an attempt at equality. Women's bodies are generally weaker than men because their bodies undergo tremendous hormonal changes and discomfort to enable child rearing.A woman carries a baby in her womb for over 9 months, suffers pain that is roughly equal to breaking 20 bones, and risks her life itself to make new life possible.She then feeds it with her own blood for the next year or so.This is not something that is voluntary and is decided by nature at birth itself. Couple this with centuries of suppression and denial of a right to education and power as well as an ongoing prejudice in almost all spheres of life, and it will become obvious that women face a serious handicap that must be compensated for hence certain provisions were made in the laws of almost all countries. 2.Evidence for a bias in Nutrition and Healthcare For this I can assert that this is a common practice all over Asia through personal experience.Sons are seen as the future providers of the family and are usually given the best of everything.However, I could gather statistics only from India.There is a 35% excess female child mortality in India when compared to males and a 10% excess females who are malnourished. I have provided 2 research papers to support my claim in the sources[3] and[4] 3.Rebuttals a.Female Genital Mutilation When you are talking about male genital mutilation I seriously hope you don't mean circumcision.The removal of the foreskin does not impair a male's sexual function in any way, and is a widely recommended procedure even by modern doctors in certain cases of infection. Female genital Mutilation results in the woman being unable to experiecnce sexual pleasure for the rest of her life,has no medical purpose and leaves her much more vulnerable to a variety of infections, cyst formation and diseases.This is a widely prevalent practice all over the islamic world and i have already given adequate statistics to prove this in the opening statement itself. b.Bride Burning Once again the feminist movement in India is not that well developed and in vast areas of the country this contiues to exist inspite of the strict laws that feminist activists have succeded in implementing.If anything, this shows how relavant Feminism is in removing such unjust practices and the need for this movement to continue for a long time to come. c.Under-representation of women in Parliaments. I assert that most women stay out of politics mainly because of a variety of reasons that include: 1.Traditional Gender roles 2.Lack of suppport from families 3.Prejudice and insubordination of subordinates. In countries like Sweden and Rwanda where these 3 things do not exist because of successful policies of feminists,women have occupied upto 47.3% and 56% of the parliament across party lines.If women in these countries can do it why not in other countries too?Why can't we continue feminism till we can achieve a parliament that truly represents the population of women? d.Domestic Violence I never said anything about men being murderous psychopaths, because I am a man myself.I am glad you accept that more women die due to domestic violence. It is just that unlike in the states, in many countries, especially Islamic countries following Sharia'a law domestic violence is legally sanctioned and the perpetrators are almost exclusively male.The surah al-Nisah,34 in the Qura'an states: "Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. " Relevant statistics: 1. Domestic violence is so common that 85 per cent of women admit to experiencing it in Afganistan. 60% of all women report being victims of multiple forms of serial violence. 2. WHO, United Nations study, 30% of women in rural Bangladesh reported their first sexual experience to be forced. About 40% report having experienced domestic violence from their intimate partner, and 50% in rural regions report experiencing sexual violence. 3.The World Health Organization reported sharply increasing rates of domestic violence in Indonesia, with over 25,000 cases in 2007. Nearly 3 in 4 cases, it is the husband beating the wife; the next largest reported category were the in-laws abusing the wife. The higher rates may be because more cases of violence against women are being reported in Indonesia, rather than going unreported, than before These cases serve to illustrate what a wide spread problem domestic Violence is in the world.Even if 70% of the initiators are women in the US, we must consider the fact that they are physically weaker also. e.Saudi Arabia What you said was correct to some degree.I will now show you why the value of a woman's testimonial is considered irrelavant here: "In a document called A Country Law Study for Saudi Arabia which is not readily available and is considered restricted reading there it cites four reasons why women are not allowed to give evidence in a Sharia Court. It might be worth while stating them here: a.women by nature are forgetful and therefore testimony is unreliable not participating in public life, they are usually not capable of understanding what they observe b.they are dominated by men and will give testimony according to what the last man told them c.being more emotional than men they will distort their testimony accordingly" Conclusion I completely agree with you when you claim that some women feminists are taking feminism too far.But unfortunately, the facts speak for themselves and women still have a long way to go before we can even dream of a gender -equal world.Feminism would be the only vital thing that can achieve this till then. Kind regards, CynicalDiogenes Sources: 1.www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism 2.http://factsfromfiction.blogspot.in...; 3.http://iussp2009.princeton.edu...; 4.http://www.indiastat.com... 5.http://www.theguardian.com...; 6.http://www.thelocal.se... 7.http://www.gu.se...; 8.Afghanistan - Ending Child Marriage and Domestic Violence Human Rights Watch (September 2013), pages 11-13 9.Violence against women World Health Organization (UN), 2012 10.Intimate Partner Violence WHO (UN), 2012 11.http://en.wikipedia.org...; 12.Gender-based violence in Indonesia, United Nations WHO (2008)

  • CON

    In India, in 2011 alone, the National Crime Records...

    Feminism is a poisonous belief system that needs to be done away with.

    Hello, I extend a very warm welcome to DDO and thank you for choosing to debate a topic that I feel very strongly about. I agree that *some* so called feminists,especially in the west, claim absurd things just to gain cheap publicity and distract people from real challenges women face around the world today.I am a feminist myself, but coming from a country like India, being a feminist means something totally different from what it has come to mean in the west. Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. You claim in your opening statement that feminism itself should be done away with.Since you did not specify any particular region, I simply assumed that it meant from the entire world.This is where I disagree,because I believe that actual feminism is something that is a vital need in today's society. I will only give my opening statement explaining my stance in this round and will be providing rebuttals only in the second round. I claim that feminism is necessary because: 1.In most parts of the world Patriarchy is still followed Feminism is needed in the world today simply because in most parts of the world women are not even given basic rights.In Saudi Arabia for example, the testimony of one man is equal to the testimony of 3 women in a court of Law.Women can't even drive or go out without being accompanied by a Mahhram(A male relative who cannot marry the woman) or her husband. While this may seem like an isolated,extreme example, women actually face a lot of discrimination for not just education and freedom, but even for basic needs like nutrition and medical care in most parts of the world, especially in Asia and Africa.This is simply because there is a cultural bias against women in these societies that assigns traditional gender roles to women and requires them to stay inside their homes.Women are considered to be just the property of their husbands and there are a variety of practices that encourage violence against them I will just list 2 of the most barbaric practices that the Partiarchial culture of these countries dictates on women: a.Female Genital Mutillation This is a practice that is widely prevalent in many parts of the Muslim world which involves the removal of a woman's clitoris and the external genitals.It has absolutely no health benefits whatsoever and many rationalists in these countries claim that it is to prevent women from enjoying pleasure during sex. According to a 2013 UNICEF report, 125 million women and girls in Africa and the Middle East have experienced female genital mutilation. According to the same UNICEF report, the top rates for female genital mutilation are in Somalia (with 98 percent of women affected), Guinea (96 percent), Djibouti (93 percent), Egypt (91 percent), Eritrea (89 percent), Mali (89 percent), Sierra Leone (88 percent), Sudan (88 percent).To think that over 80% of all women in these countries actually have their own privates mutilated must give you an idea about how patriarchially biased these societies must be. b.Bride Burning and Dowry Violence In most parts of India(my own country), the second most populous country in the world a weird custom is followed by almost everyone, where the bride's family is expected to pay exorbitant amounts of mmoney to the groom simply for agreeing to marry her.Many men keep demanding their dowry well after marriage is over and often, women are killed by the husband or his family if they are not satisfied with the dowry. In India, in 2011 alone, the National Crime Records Bureau reported 8,618 dowry deaths, while unofficial figures suggest the numbers to be at least three times higher.You must realise that this is greatly under-reported because of the state of society here. While this practice has been outlawed,and strict punishments are awarded to those who get convicted, most families are unwilling to bear the shame of being unable to pay dowry and do not even report cases until the bride commits suicide or is murdered. Any movement that aims to end this widespread and barbaric violence should necessarily be good for the World as a whole today. 2.Women are extremely under-represented even in most modern democracies Women constitute roughly 50% of the population of most countries.Yet they continue to be under-represented in most modern democracies.The United States currently has only 20 women senators and 82 women in the house of Representatives out of 435.The US is yet to see even a single woman elected as the president, while many Muslim countries such as Bangladesh and Pakistan already have a woman Head of state.On October 2013, the global average of women in national assemblies was a mere 21.5% While one may argue that the laws are fair and that there is nothing that prevents women from contesting in elections, one cannot simply ignore the invisible glass ceiling of the personal prejudices that many voters will have about voting for a woman. 3.Violence against women is prevalent even in Western and 'modern' countries You had agreed in your opening statement that most men were physically stronger than women and hence women get injured more during domeastic fights.However, you ignore the fact that a lot of them tend to be victimised by people who they know intimately and are regularly forced into abusive relationships due to various reasons. I will be refuting some of the statistics and arguments you gave and will demonstrate how widespread in even Western society. I would like to add that women are much more likely than men to be murdered by an intimate partner according to a number of trusted sources. In the United States, in 2005, 1181 women, in comparison with 329 men, were killed by their intimate partners. In England and Wales about 100 women are killed by partners or former partners each year while 21 men were killed in 2010. In 2008, in France, 156 women in comparison with 27 men were killed by their intimate partner. Most cases of abuse go unreported even in these countries and the number of women with abusive partners can never be known. Conclusion I hope these reasons alone show how far behind we are from achieveing true gender equality in the world.To declare feminism itself as wrong just because a few silly women trying to sound political claim absurd and irrational things is to completely ignore the pressing need for gender equality that is denied to women in most parts of the world today. With the mass immigration of Muslims into many parts of Europe and the growing demands of these immigrants to implement Sharia'a law,the future actually looks bleak for women. All these reasons make a belief that women need to be treated as equal extremely relavant in today's world.A political movement or ideology to overcome this bias against women that has existed probably since the beginning of time cannot be a 'poisonous belief system that needs to be done away with.' Hence I assert that Feminism is neccessary in today's world. Regards, CynicalDiogenes Sources: 1."Feminism – Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary". 2.http://www.unwomen.org... 3."Intimate Partner Violence: Overview". Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. 2006. Retrieved 2007-09-04. 4.CDC – Consequences – Intimate Partner Violence – Violence Prevention – Injury. Cdc.gov. 5.http://www.who.int... 6.http://www.unicef.org... 7.http://en.wikipedia.org...'s_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

  • CON

    So neither argument is nullified, both stand. ... [1]-...

    The world needs more feminism

    First, I would like to mention that I will rebut in a numerical fashion, then state my argument. 1. My opponent has seemingly equated the 5.2% star with inequality in the workplace. This absurd idea is backed up with yet another stat " that more women are enrolled in college then men. He says that this should at least translate to a 50"50 ratio within the Fortune 500 perimeter. First and foremost, let me point out that both of those stats are misleading. To begin with the enrollment figure, let us first establish that while more women may be in universities then men, men outnumber women about 2:1 in many business fields, such as management or finance, most of which translate to higher salaries. Women are most likely to go a medical route, or similar field [1]. These jobs often offer lower pay. Another high"paying field dominated by men is computer science, where representation stands at about 8"2 [2]. A final example is engineering, where men make up about 83% of the field (a wealthy one I might add), whereas it is absent from the top 10 majors for women. So it should be established that while women may be higher in numbers, that in no way means they should have equal earnings all around, mainly because on average, women take lower paying routes. Hopefully here we can begin to see that the fortune 500 conundrum is based on the path you choose, not sexism in the workplace. 2. Pros second contention was that Australia's women are considered unequal, due to domestic violence. He validates the contention by saying two women are killed per week due to domestic violence, compared to 0 men so far. For starters, the population of Australia is 23.13 million, so that equates to about 0.00000562% of the population, and for just women that figure becomes a mere 0.00001124%. So considering that the percentage of women affected by this is so finite, I find it ridiculous to claim women are "not considered equal" or that they cannot walk at night without fear. To conclude this statement, I also want to point out that while arguing the number of women affected could be good, saying 0 men have been killed is not a sign of sexism. This is a good thing.. So it should be considered good when 0 people have died due to a reason. 3. To address the "contradiction" in my argument, I will quickly point out that my statements had no correlation to one another. The first was simply describing the general statement that you cannot force someone to change their mind. It had little to do with sexism, only a general statement. Because while you can influence someone, you technically cannot force them to think differently. So neither argument is nullified, both stand. 4. This rebuttal is compelling, but with flaws. Pro points out that times change, obviously, and so do people. But vital relationships and natural human interaction should not be discarded as mere "social change". An ageless institution such as marriage is very, very important to how we live. It has been shown that married people live longer, happier lives [3], and are much less likely to go to prison or get in trouble in general. So I did not pick the 50's as some nostalgic golden age of romance to prove my point, but instead as a model of how to build relationships. If you believe all people should be able to live fruitless lives of immorality and short term relationships, then go for it. But just know that it is contradictive to human nature to be a "lone wolf". The 50's works as an example simply because of low out of wedlock marriages, marriages rates in general, and it being the closest period to our timeline before the sexual revolution. It has been shown that permanent relationships are a key factor to your happiness, and being sexually active at a young age can have consequences, such as STDs and high welfare dependency (for out of wedlock marriages) [4]. To wrap up this point, I want to argue that women of the 50s were not objects. They were fulfilling jobs equal to or greater to those of men- raising the next generation. It should be seen as 2 supports leaning on each other for balance, both fulfilling equal, but different jobs to survive. You have a false view of history where women were enslaved to men, toiling for the oppressive mans desires. In actuality, women were completing equal jobs to men, and it is only recently that feminists have decided that raising traditional families is bad. 5. Pro argues that because equality has gone up, so has divorce. In reference to my last paragraph, let me stress again how important marriage and relationships are to human life. It has nothing to do with any inequality or enslavement. It is something that has been found in every society, ever, and among animals similar to us. You seem to have this warped leftist view of marriage " that it is an idea made up by scheming, abusive men years ago, and must be eliminated or made useless. I cannot emphasize enough that marriage is not something that should be declining. Not to sound racist, but an example is the black family. Once equally employed and independent, now over 70% of African-American babies are born in out of wedlock relationships [5]. Welfare is at an all-time high, and black unemployment is much noticeably higher than white or Hispanic unemployment. The only solid answer achievable is the decline of the African american family. My opponents argument for economic growth being tied to feminism is a mere coincidence. The rates displayed in his source are very low in correlation, which shows that economic growth in South America is linked to the privatization of industries, the development of countries, and the less Socialist government style, which just so happens to be happening alongside feminism. No real or credible research actually suggests that feminism improves the economy. Let me remind you, since feminism has become dominant in North America, our economies have done anything but explode. My argument: to sum up my argument, I will again point to the rise in out of wedlock marriages, degration of women to objects, and the decline in marriage. Being born out of wedlock is not good for anyone. The parents are more likely to have been in prison, be poor, had multiple children with multiple partners, and suffer from depression. Children brought up in this situation, in turn, have a similar outlook ahead [6]. The degration of women is definitely a thing, and it is hard to deny. Can you not agree, especially at a young age, women are seen as objects and temporary bragging rights opposed to a person? We are not being taught to seek out long and prosperous relationships- instead told that quick sex and promiscuity is good. This encourages unstable marriages, which encourages unstable societies. Children cannot raise themselves, and if the 2 parent system is the best way, why not encourage that way? The decline of marriage is also linked to this. As marriage declines, so does the structure and order of society, and from that point it becomes a free fall to social prostitution and a life devoid of actual relationships. To the reader, if you got this far, I must ask why and how this type of orderless society could be supported, where equality by opportunity is not the norm, but instead equality by sameness takes root. And that, my friends, is the road to serfdom, otherwise known as socialism. [1]- http://www.bloomberg.com... [2]- http://www.randalolson.com... [3]- http://www.foryourmarriage.org... [4]- http://www.heritage.org... [5]- http://www.nationalreview.com... [6]- http://m.huffpost.com...

  • CON

    If he wanted to have a debate on the superiority or...

    The rise of feminism has negatively impacted relationships

    *Has my opponent scientifically proven that feminism is negatively impacting relationships? As it is written now, the point of this debate is for him to prove that feminism is negatively impacting relationships, not what women are and aren't good at. He spent little time doling out statistics on modern relationship trends. He even admits "science is limited in it's ability to prove that people are less happy in relationships" then he puts forth statistics that don't have anything to do with relationships specifically, in hopes that the reader can find a correlation. I agree with my opponent that science is limited in it's ability to prove that relationships are being adversely affected. I took to the internet (at my opponents suggesting) to find evidence of the decline of the modern relationship, but to no avail. There really isn't any evidence suggesting that relationships are being adversely affected AT ALL, let alone by feminism. With a lack of proper evidence, all my opponent could do from here on out was draw correlations between his relationship and society, as if what happens in his relationship must be happening to us all. His point of view from his relationship cannot be considered a reliable representation of ALL relationships. I think he could've done a better job with trying to prove "scientifically", that relationships are being adversely affected, and that feminism is the specific cause. Without this concrete evidence, my opponents entire argument unravels fairly quick. Now, the entire debate is based solely from the point of view of my opponent. *Has my opponent persuaded you of his premise in a social sense? It seems my opponent has projected his image of his relationship onto society. He thinks his personal experience is a true representation of ALL society, then he tries to portray his problems as societies problems. In all truth, it was a revealing look inside the dark depths of a social echoe chamber. I know how he wanted so badly to argue that women are inferior when it comes to finances or personal responsibility etc etc, but I feel that whatever "role" Tom has in mind for men and women doesn't really matter in this debate. If he wanted to have a debate on the superiority or inferiority of men and women, his proposal should have been worded differently, like for instance, UNK NO LIKE WOMEN IN WORKPLACE, or something of that nature. It seems that Thomas thinks my relationship is "rather rare if not unique in human history", so I guess he thinks my relationship is NOT a good representation of society at large, to him I'm in an "alternative social order". He feels that him and his friends (who unsurprisingly have similar problems) and whatever comedy shows he watches are a good representation of society at large, because he did a study on the issue (I'm sure it's scintillating) and that's all he felt he needed as a good representation of society!?! My opponent offers no hard evidence on social trends suggesting that feminism has a negative impact on relationships, but here is a link to one study he mentioned and it seems that egalitarianism does not adversely affect relationships http://journals.sagepub.com.... *Has my opponent properly addressed the fact that economic circumstances make it difficult for women to be housewives? My opponents assertion that feminist discouragement of women being housewives is totally irrelevant!! Womens rejection of the role of housewife isn't tied to feminism, it's tied to economic circumstance. I would wager that the VAST majority of women who have jobs do not identify themselves as feminists. Regardless of their feelings toward being housewives, more women are being thrust into a role of economic provider. My opponent has done nothing to address this point, which I have brought up more than once! *Do social additudes directly influence our relationships? I think my opponent got a little tongue tied when it came to this point. It seems he thinks that social attitudes have a more profound impact on our personal relationships than we as individuals do. Once again he's hijacked something and twisted it to fit his world view. Higher self awareness does not deal with societies influence, it deals with emotions. My opponent claims we are preprogrammed by society, and the concept of higher self awareness proves it. HOGWASH!!!! Higher self awareness says that our brains are capable of remembering the emotions we feel in any given situation we've ever had. Our brains then store that information and uses it as an emotional blueprint for our future reference. When we encounter a situation that is similar to a situation we've encountered in the past, our brains unconsciously remind us of the feelings we had in the past situation. This emotional information can and does profoundly influence our decision making. Some may interpret that as being preprogrammed by our emotions, but self awareness is the realization of this process and being able to overcome it. I think my opponent has a common misconception on the difference between emotions and actions. Emotions do influence us deeply, and we don't truly have control over them, but your not going to melt if you act "contrary" to your emotions. They're just feelings (Nietzsche spoke about this alot). Lets say you have a fear of flying, but you've decided to get on a plane and face your fear, that would be an example of you acting contrary to your emotions. Your choice of action is the dominant factor here, not emotions. We are not preprogrammed by our emotions. I feel that the only way social attitudes can influence our relationships is if we choose to let them. Our relationships aren't owned by the public, and our love is not for the greater good of society, it's for our own personal interest. Our perception of our own relationship is far more influential than social attitudes. My wife and I are very happy together, but we have had quarrels in the past and will again in the future, but I don't simply blame our disagreements on feminism. Our personal feelings for each other are far more influential than social attitudes or feminism. I thank my opponent for such a spirited debate, and I wish him good luck. I thank YOU the reader for taking interest in this debate, and I encourage you to vote on it. Peace!