PRO

  • PRO

    A New York judge ruled Tuesday that ExxonMobil did not...

    New York Lost A Landmark Climate Fraud Case Against Exxon

    A New York judge ruled Tuesday that ExxonMobil did not make misleading statements in public disclosures about the company’s climate change risks, delivering a major win to the oil giant in the highly anticipated climate fraud case. New York Supreme Court Judge Barry Ostrager found that the New York attorney general “failed to establish by a preponderance of the evidence” that the oil giant violated the law “in connection with its public disclosures concerning how ExxonMobil accounted for past, present, and future climate change risks,” according to his decision. The...

    • https://www.allsides.com/story/exxonmobil-wins-landmark-ny-climate-fraud-case
  • PRO

    That was part typo and part stupid mistake. ... 3....

    The American government should take an active role in stopping climate change

    Thank you for your response! "Before I get into my opening statement I need to already correct a statement made by my opponent." I certainly hope that you read my source #2 (relisted here for your convenience as source [1]). That very clearly spelled out what scientists know. The burden of proof therefore lies upon you to disprove those facts laid out by the EPA. "This is exactly what has happened with global warming. People made statements that humans are to blame and then when questioned about such things they comment that the other side has no proof that it isn't true." I bring you, again, to the EPA site that I sourced. "So before we begin talking about regulations we must understand 1) there is no clear proof that global warming has started or continues due to humans and 2) the burden of proof is with the accuser and has yet to be shown beyond a reasonable doubt." I have addressed both these claims. "I need to comment and request that we not use such false statements as fact until clearly proven, which is not the case currently." I totally agree. Luckily I proved it. "For starters, in 2009, NASA has proven that we had the fastest growth of ice production in the Arctic" Check your link. I find it completely unnecessary to address this argument, but I will just for fun. August of 2008, as of when this article was written, was the month that saw the fastest loss of Arctic ice in recorded history [2]. "Until that point is more proven, we cannot advice to regulations on an unproven fact." That is an argument that I've never understood. If there is any speculation at all that humans are a major cause of global warming, shouldn't we stay on the safe side? If it turns out it wasn't caused by humans, we won't really be affected (other than maybe being a little smarter, healthier and happier), and if it is caused by humans, well, we would have saved the planet. On the other hand, if you choose not to protect the environment, if you're right then nothing will happen, but if you're wrong then you will have allowed something horrible to happen that was largely or completely preventable. We only have one planet, so we should respect it. "I will continue with other points brought up by my opponent as he talks about regulation of "3 million people". My guess is that he is talking about American People and also that he meant to type a number closer to 305 million." I apologize. That was part typo and part stupid mistake. I often argue this for Oregon, which does have approximately 3 million people. In any case, I meant to say 300 million, and that only makes my point stronger. "If that is the case then yes I agree it would be hard to have 305 million people all change the way they live for something which they don't know to be a reality, but I do not agree that government regulation on their private lives is acceptable." Time out. I never said the government should regulate their private life. The government can't do that. The reforms which I proposed were all corporate and governmental. Through availability and convenience, the people will naturally change what they do. "Couldn't these people simply pay the extra fee and continue their way of life as they currently are?" Obviously they won't completely go away, I'm not an idealist. But I can guarantee you that their use will diminish very substantially. If you have to pay for every single bag you get from the grocery store, obviously people will be much more inclined to reduce and reuse. I don't think anybody could truthfully deny that. "So if extra taxes are not the correct answer, what is? Should the government have the right to enter everyone's home and remove items they feel are not environmentally friendly?" Taxes are the right answer. Even if they weren't, it would probably increase recycling substantially if all states had deposits on their bottled and canned beverages (I have gotten quite a bit of money returning cans and bottles). But taxing would work. And your "idea," well, see the 4th amendment of the US Constitution. "When something so unproven and unclear is being discussed, I find it quite naive to already discuss regulations on the American public without proof of a problem." See my argument about taking initiative. "Arctic Ice has actually increased about 43% from 1980 to 2009 (http://nsidc.org......) and I am strongly against regulating the American public on a fallacy." First of all, that link shows Antarctic ice. Arctic ice has decreased. Also, I really don't know what to say to those statistics, other than the fact that 2009 was an El Nino year, which affects different parts of the world differently. In the case of Antarctica, it actually cools it down a bit. Now, here is where your logical fallacy comes into place. El Nino events are caused by the heating of the East Pacific. We have seen more El Nino years than ever recently, and the only explanation for that is climate change (and that is exactly why I don't call it global warming, even though the mean temperature had steadily increased [3]). The fact is, you have very little evidence rejecting climate change, yet there is as plethora of evidence supporting it [Every single source I posted]. If you don't believe me, ask Mohammed Nasheed, the president of the Maldives, who has to handle a very unique situation. See, the country that he leads is very literally in danger of disappearing to rising sea levels [5]. "In addition to this, while it is argued that Americans are causing more of this problem than most, it is agreed that they are still a small percentage in relation to the rest of the whole world." Not per capita. Yes, the whole world needs to change, but America is grossly overstepping its bounds, so it is high time that we lead the rest of the world in changing what we do. "So why should America be punished if the rest of the globe is not?" You seem very set in the idea that we're being "punished." It is not in any way a punishment to lead our country in doing the right thing. "And I would also request my opponent to cease with his scare tactics such as "how it (global warming) will kill us"." You may call them scare tactics, but, as Mohammed Nasheed or any Maldivian will tell you, unless people realize the full scope and potential of the issue, people will die. There will be very real devastating effects of climate change. You may write them off as scare tactics, but I am simply stating very blunt facts in a very blunt way, and I feel that that is warranted. I could mention that warmer oceans make more (and stronger) hurricanes and other extreme weather events [6], but I'm not going to because those are "scare tactics." I am eagerly awaiting your response! 1. http://www.epa.gov... 2. http://www.treehugger.com... (look familiar?) 3. http://www.stormfax.com... 4. http://www.newscientist.com... 5. http://news.bbc.co.uk... 6. http://www.epa.gov...

  • PRO

    Therefore, ---1) I acknowledge "the science of the...

    "Fixing the Climate" should be a Low Priority for the USA

    ===== Begin DISCLAIMER ===== This is a Politics debate. I have no interest in debating the science of climate change. I find it tedious. I am also hesitant to debate any of the science involved. Therefore, ---1) I acknowledge "the science of the problem" without reservation: global climate change exists, Is man-made, And is leading to a CATASTROPHE ---2) If a reputable source makes (or reports on) a scientific claim, I will accept it as accurate ===== End DISCLAIMER ===== 1 ========= My Argument #1 Many people think that the climate choices are: A) fix the climate, Or B) head straight for the CATASTROPHE. In contrast, This CNN article (1) describes the real choices: B) best case, Hit the CATASTROPHE in 2100, Or C) real case, Hit the CATASTROPHE some few years later (can anyone tell me how long the delay will be? ) If option A were really possible, Then maybe the USA could rationalize putting a lot of resources on it today. But since a slight delay in 80 years is all we can possibly achieve, The priority of necessity plummets. If we go ahead with option B, We will certainly need to spend resources on the CATASTROPHE. But, It will be to deal with the incremental consequences as they come (let's call these incremental costs "P"). If we go ahead with option C, We will spend a lot of time and money to slightly delay the CATASTROPHE (let's call these up front costs "Q"). Nevertheless, Once the delay expires, We will still have to spend the P costs. Every penny of the up front costs Q will be wasted. By definition, Q + P > P. Therefore, I recommend that we not spend Q. 2 ========= Defining the CATASTROPHE When you accept the debate, Please include a description of your understanding of the impending catastrophe arising from the globe's current warming trajectory. Please be as specific as you can: number of degrees of extra heat, Inches of ocean rise, Number of climate-related deaths, Etc. I will try to use your description as the authoritative CATASTROPHE throughout the debate. (1) The link is not working, The CNN article is called "Earth to warm 2 degrees Celsius by the end of this century, Studies say" with a dateline of July 31, 2017

  • PRO

    My opponent appears to think that whether the IPCC is a...

    The climate is not "a changing".

    I have clearly stated that the IPCC is a communist organisation to which my opponent has not offered any counter argument. Thus, We can only assume that my opponent agrees with this statement thus far. My opponent appears to think that whether the IPCC is a communist organisation or not is relevant to the debate. My opponent should note that when participating in a debate all the items in the first round should be addressed. It is up to the judges of the debate to decide if any part of the debate is irrelevant and it is not part of con's duty or responsibility to decide what is relevant and what is not relevant. This is because the IPCC is an untrustworthy organisation which has political agendas which have nothing to do with climate. Thus, If they are using climate as a tool of political manipulation then, This should be addressed as important evidence. Just because my opponent can't see any structure in my first round doesn't imply that there is no structure. Of course, It would be of great advantage to my opponent if he could eliminate the IPCC from the debate because the IPCC has a very bad record of corruption and supplying misinformation about the My opponent appears to think that whether the IPCC is a communist organisation or not is relevant to the debate. My opponent should note that when participating in a debate all the items in the first round should be addressed. It is up to the judges of the debate to decide if any part of the debate is irrelevant and it is not part of con's duty or responsibility to decide what is relevant and what is not relevant. This is because the IPCC is an untrustworthy organisation which has political agendas which have nothing to do with climate. Thus, If they are using climate as a tool of political manipulation then, This should be addressed as important evidence. Just because my opponent can't see any structure in my first round doesn't imply that there is no structure. Of course, It would be of great advantage to my opponent if he could eliminate the IPCC from the debate because the IPCC has a very bad record of corruption and supplying misinformation about the climate. Thus, My opponent would very much rather not discuss the IPCC for these very reasons.

  • PRO

    Secondly, regardless of whether or not developed...

    developed countries have a moral obligation to mitigate the effects of climate change

    Again, I must reiterate my desire to see Con's sources. C1: Citation, please. Secondly, regardless of what NASA thinks, 97% of climate scientists agree that humans are altering climate through carbon dioxide[1]. Nor does my argument rely on humans causing the increase in carbon dioxide; we can remove carbon dioxide from the air regardless of the source. C2: Firstly, this says 'developed countries' not 'USA'. Secondly, regardless of whether or not developed countries care, other countries will, and may (if they feel threatened enough) decide that they should enact sanctions on developed countries, or band together to attack them. Or present us with an embargo on their oil. Furthermore, global warming is predicted to cause: *negative effects in agriculture (wildfires, droughts) including to areas such as the Western United States and the Colorado River Basin *increased spread of mosquito born diseases (dengue fever, malaria) to places including the United States[2] *negative effects on ecotourism incomes as coral reefs die off (think Australia)[3] 1. http://www.skepticalscience.com... 2. http://www.nrdc.org... 3. http://www.skepticalscience.com...

  • PRO

    Worldwide thermohaline circulation has abruptly shut down...

    Population control MUST be part of climate change/sustainable policies

    WE ARE Smart and there are tons of great technology to help us. Fusion power, hydroponic farming, helium 3, high temp gas reactors, etc can solve a lot of the problems with climate change and limited resources BUT most/majority of those are YEARS, some decades, away from being a viable and widespread tech with enough influence to balance climate change and environmental collapse that at best we only have 15-20 years if we keep running as business as usual and maybe 30-35 running under Paris Agreement and the sustainable energies and policies we got now. IF world governments poured the BILLIONS and BILLION of dollars they spend on warfare, fossil fuel production/subsidies/research, pork barrel projects, ect AND REPEALED LAWS AND POLICIES that kept pouring those billions and billions into those expenditures .... THEN maybe MAYBE those technologies would have a chance of being developed so they can save the environment and our place in it. But since the likelihood of BOTH or even ONE of those things happening is practically nil ( shrug) Oil, chemical, GMO, car maufactuers, big agriculture, ect ( businesses and companies that benefit from the pollution/chemical/pesticided and general all bad spewing nonsense),status quo have MILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars to lobby and bribe our politicians with cushy high paying jobs for their families, friends, and them when they retire. These great technology will never be fully realized to their potential as long as they are in power and/or companies hold power. To the case in point desalination on such a large scale to produce drinking water for a large and growing population would eventually destabilized the salt content of the oceans and ruin swaths of ecosystems that we depend on for food. Also increasing the amount of freshwater into the water cycle would cause dramatic climate change from the reduction of large-scale mixing of water " thermohaline circulation " throughout the oceans. A larger layer of fresh water then current level ( 3% fee and not locked in ice) would slow or prevent normal thermohaline mixing and would affect the currents offshore from Greenland and Newfoundland. The oceans have a delicate balance of dense salt water and lighter fresh water flowing through its currents, that the earth weather and ocean fish and animals depend on. Worldwide thermohaline circulation has abruptly shut down and recovered in the past, causing climate to flip-flop from warm to cold to back again. If such an event happened today, there could be crop failures in Canada, England, and northern Europe. And I'm not advocating TERMINATING birthrate - more maintaining a balance with the available resources at this time. Even with the best technology at current disposal an acre of land can only sustainable support a family of four at normal usage of utilities and food for a year, maybe 6 if being highly efficient. Now if your want to bring in tons of chemicals, hormones, pesticides ( all advances in technology ), run up a huge electricity bill ( burning tons of oil/coal), waste a lot of water, and cram animals together like big INDUSTRIAL farms do, THEN you could do maybe 20-30 people an acre. But your creating more waste and pollution to feed THE MORE PEOPLE. There no getting around that basic fact. MORE PEOPLE = MORE NEEDS = MORE DRAIN ON VIABLE LIMITED RESOURCES. My personal policies for mentioned were mostly end all last ditch efforts that if we push technology research, world wide affordable commercialized, and repeal hindering laws and policies, HOPEFULLY we would not need to implement. As I said I understand majority of them fly in the face of most religious teaching ( I have a opinion that the "to the be fruitful and multiply" tenet in most religions is a power play using greater numbers in order to overcome other religions but I digress lol ) So in the best case scenario a sustainable energy and technology push , curbing consumer habits, and these measure would fit more comfortably perhaps ? 1) Contraceptions are free and widely available 2) Sex education is mandatory for middle school and high school graduation unless the school is private and/or has a religious charter ( if the shame of sexuality is removed people r more likely to use contraceptions : if kids know what is going on with their bodies during puberty and the real consequences of a sexual encounter ( diseases, pregnancy and its hardships) they r more likely not to "try it out " out of curiosity : also with #4 consequence, less likely to take risk and parents more likely to rein them in check least the parents have to pay the fine and jail time themselves also ) 3) Marriage before the age of 25 is illegal and comes with a heavy fine ( the human brain is not fully developed till 20-25 so we are poor equipt to map out long term consequences such as a pregnancy and its financial burdens,physical toll with you having to work and/or go to school as well as take care of a baby, ect ect : the age 25 also gives ample time to complete of near complete college - children of a college educated parent benefit greatly. Higher levels of parent educational attainment are strongly associated with positive outcomes for children in many areas, including school readiness, educational achievement, incidence of low birthweight, health-related behaviors including smoking and binge drinking, and pro-social activities such as volunteering. They are also likely to have access to greater material, human, and social resources through their parents higher wealth from better paying jobs that they got cause of their higher education. 4) Sexual activity and/or pregnancy outside of marriage exempting surrogacy is illegal and heavy fined and can be charged as criminal rap ( Infidelity is seen as a sin by most religions and there are many government and religious laws against it though they are very rarely in force in the US and rarely against a man in a lot of foreign countries ( DBL standards ) 21 states have adultery laws, most consider it a misdemeanor (in Maryland you pay a $10 fine) a few, it is a felony ( in Massachusetts it can get you 3 years in jail) and adults having an affair routinly becomes so swept up in personal needs and those of the outside partner that that parent becomes incapable of focusing on the child's needs, both emotionally, mentally, and physically, and its effects. Children also have an acute awareness of a parents behavior even when very young ( it's biological human evolution trait to create family bonds since a baby/child is helpless and needs protection for years) and even if the truth is hidden and can lead to feeling of rejections, anxiousness, defiance, and lead to bad behaviors and majority to affairs themselves perpetuating the cycle ) Religions may have a problem with the contraceptions and the sex education but if it goes against their religious belief THEY DONT HAVE TO USE THEM or ATTEND THE CLASSES. They can't FORCE their beliefs on other and PREVENT others from getting them or attending class. And Im sure they CAN AGREE to the " no sex before marriage" .... "Basically, the human population is not what causes pollution. It"s the production of harmful energy and the waste of space that does." Since clean technology and efficient use of space is not widespread nor affordable to everyone at this time due to the formentioned causes, WE ARE PRODUCING HARMFUL ENERGY AND WASTING SPACE therefor we are causing pollution lol check out these links http://cgge.aag.org... It is a paper of formulas and theories on population and environmental impact http://www.childtrends.org... this deals with children of educated parents research http://www.nytimes.com... psychological effects of affairs on the offending parents child

  • PRO

    1] Why were the predictions so confident back then. ......

    Global climate change should not be a major factor in US energy policy

    Thanks to Con for accepting this debate. The resolution covers many issues, and that will make it difficult to discuss comprehensively. The virtue is that it exposes how many assumptions are stacked to get to the present policies of heavily subsidizing uneconomic green energy and discouraging the exploitation of fossil fuels. 1. Increasing warmth and CO2 are most likely beneficial The average temperature of the earth has risen about 1 degree C in the past hundred years. [1] The earth was much warmer than the present during the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) about a thousand years ago. [2] That's when Greenland was actually green and grapes grew in Scotland. The MWP was a prosperous time in human history because the growing season was longer in the temperate zone. Temperatures were warmer still during the Holocene Maximum, 5,000 to 8,000 years ago. That is when the great civilizations of the world began in China, India, and the Middle East. It was another very prosperous time. Going back in geological time, earth is currently none of the lowest points of both temperature and atmospheric CO2 concentrations. [3] The current average global temperature is about 14.5 C (58 F). [4] For most of the period of the evolution of life forms, average global temperature was around 22 C. Life flourished. CO2 levels are now around 380 ppm, less than a tenth of early levels. [3] The main depletion of CO2 is from the microscopic skeletons of plankton capturing the CO2 in carbonates which end up in limestone at the bottoms of the oceans. Because plants evolved in conditions of high CO2, they are now relatively starved. Commercial greenhouse operators artificially raise CO2 to about double current atmospheric levels, There are a few exceptions, but nearly all plant species grow faster at higher CO2 levels. This fact is supported a vast number of peer reviewed studies. More plant growth means more food, and that's good. Humans adapt much more readily to warmer climates than cold. [6] That's apparent from the distribution of human populations. The same is true of animal species. Of course, there are extremes that cannot be tolerated, but the climate change controversy is mostly about CO2 causing changes of 1 - 4 degrees C. Warmer is better. The largest disadvantage of warmth is the rise in sea level. The latest IPCC report predicts and expected rise of nine inches in the next hundred years. 2. Climate predictions are unreliable The global warming panic peaked around 2000, when confident predictions were made that the world would fry by the year 2010. In the decade since then, the world has actually cooled. [1] Why were the predictions so confident back then. The logic was as follows: (a) the earth warmed substantially from 1980 to 2000, (b) CO2 increased during that period, (c) all other factors affecting climate had been accounted for -- it wasn't the sun, volcanoes, changes in the earth orbit or anything else, (d) therefore CO2 caused the warming. The physics of CO2 alone did not explain the warming, so a multiplying effect was hypothesized and the multiplier was found to be high. About two-dozen computer models using various models built on the same principles were used to predict the decade of 2001-2010. What actually occurred was below the error band of all the model predictions. [7] One factor that was omitted was the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, a roughly-60 year cycle that peaked in the 1880s, 1930s, and 2000s, producing widespread melting of Arctic Ice at each peak. Taking the PDO into account, many now predict we are in for two or three decades of cooling. [7. 8] Last month, I attended a pitch for M.I.T.'s new effort to rebuild climate science into something reliable. [9] The prof started by saying, "I just returned from a week-long conference at Princeton. We all agreed on two things: the troposphere is warming, and we don't know why." For example, a critical element in climate models is the rate of energy transfer between the ocean surface and the atmosphere. Recent work suggests the previous assumptions are off by a factor of ten or twenty. There are many other known deficiencies. Because climate models have been proven wrong, and wrong in the direction of wildly exaggerating CO2 effects, they should not be used a basis for public policy. We should continue research until the models prove reliable. 3. Fossil fuel restrictions in the US will have little effect Let's suppose for a moment that CO2 alarmists are correct in worrying about CO2 increases. China has 23% of the CO2 emissions, the us 18%. However, the Chinese are increasing consumption at 11% per year, while the US is about stable. World consumption is growing at 5.6%, with most of the growth in developing countries. Per capita consumption in China is a quarter that of the US. India is about 1/30. There is no possibility that China, India, and the developing world are going to stay in poverty over fear of global warming. Let's suppose the US cut it's CO2 emissions in half. Because the US population centers cover a large area, transportation needs are much greater than countries where the population is concentrated, so its a lot harder to cut energy use. If the US cut by half, India and China can be expected to grow rapidly. Their populations are now about eight times that of the US, their populations are growing faster, and they want to to advance their standard of living to US levels. The US's 18% of emissions will probably be less than 6% of the world total in 50 years. If we took drastic cuts, it might be 3%. Temperature is proportional to the logarithm of CO2 concentration. If the temperature rise were 1 degree, our policy of draconian cuts would be reduce the rise by 0.026 degree, That's negligible. There is no point in it. 4. Attempts to significantly cut CO2 would cost trillions of dollars Any measure that reduces CO2 and also cuts costs will be adopted by free markets independent of government policy. For example, fluorescent light bulbs and hybrid cars save money, so people are adopting them without a government policy forcing it. Forcing it costs an enormous amount of money. For example, there are 250 million passenger cars in the US. Replacing them with $25K hybrid vehicles would cost That's $6,5 trillion. Going to $40K electric cars would be $10 trillion. All the cars would ordinarily be replaced eventually, in about 20 years. Advancing that to replace them faster costs an amount proportional to the total. When the capital, backup, distribution costs are counted, wind power costs about five times as much as conventional power and solar power about seven times as much. Hence the green upgrade is the cost to replace all the power plants in the country, times about six. The UX needs about 900,000 megawatt. [12] A new 300 megawatt coal plant is roughly $1 billion. [13] A green energy upgrade would be about $18 trillion. On the other side of the ledger, the US has about $300 trillion worth of fossil fuels that would become worthless. [14] The GDP is $14 trillion. We cannot afford the costs, so the policy would fail. --------------------- 1. http://www.theregister.co.uk... 2. http://www.geocraft.com... 3. http://www.geocraft.com... 4. http://www.currentresults.com... 5, http://www.co2science.org... 6. http://anthro.palomar.edu... 7. http://clivebest.com... 8. http://notrickszone.com... 9. http://paoc2001.mit.edu... 10. http://www.thegwpf.org... 11. http://factspluslogic.com... 12. http://www.eia.gov... 13. http://www.jsonline.com... 14. http://factspluslogic.com...

  • PRO

    ExxonMobil won a first-of-its-kind climate change fraud...

    Exxon wins first-of-its-kind climate change case against New York

    ExxonMobil won a first-of-its-kind climate change fraud trial on Tuesday as a judge rejected the state of New York's claim that the oil and gas giant misled investors in accounting for the financial risks of global warming. New York Supreme Court Justice Barry Ostrager said the state failed to prove that Exxon violated the Martin Act, a broad state law that does not require proof of intent of shareholder fraud. “The office of the Attorney General failed to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that ExxonMobil made any material...

    • https://www.allsides.com/story/exxonmobil-wins-landmark-ny-climate-fraud-case
  • PRO

    Democrats on Thursday unveiled a new agenda for climate...

    Dems Unveil 2021 Agenda to Tackle Climate Change as Wildfires Rage on West Coast

    Democrats on Thursday unveiled a new agenda for climate change amid a backdrop of raging wildfires burning on the West Coast. The plan also includes a bicameral resolution on racial injustice and economic recovery. At least 79 members of Congress, including Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Ma., and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, back the THRIVE agenda, which stands for “Transform, Heal, and Renew by Investing in a Vibrant Economy.” “Our country is facing crises that are fatefully intertwined: tens of millions of people are unemployed, the COVID-19...

    • https://www.allsides.com/story/wildfires-sweep-west-coast-media-coverage-differs
  • PRO

    Hundreds of climate change protesters swarmed the field...

    Students swarm field at Harvard-Yale football game, chant ‘OK boomer’ in climate change protest

    Hundreds of climate change protesters swarmed the field during halftime of the annual Harvard-Yale football game Saturday, delaying the action for nearly an hour as students chanted “OK boomer” and as police made arrests and issued summonses for disorderly conduct. Players from both teams joined demonstrators on the field in a showstopping escalation of long-running campaigns for the two schools to stop investing their endowments in fossil fuels and forgive Puerto Rican debt. Protesters sat at the 50-yard line at the Yale Bowl in New Haven, Conn., arms linked and...

CON

  • CON

    It does not solve the problem

    Those affected by climate change should get compensation

    It does not solve the problem

  • CON

    Developing countries would use the money to become more...

    Those affected by climate change should get compensation

    Developing countries would use the money to become more industrious themselves.

  • CON

    it cannot be measured in fiscal ways

    Those affected by climate change should get compensation

    it cannot be measured in fiscal ways

  • CON

    Either we act or we don't act, and then either GW happens...

    Acting to 'mitigate' climate change will cost a fortune.

    Action needn't cost a fortune, using market forces and effective regulation carbon emissions can be reduced at minimal cost. Anyway the people that are causing it can easily afford it... Out of the four possible eventualities, acting now is the best. Either we act or we don't act, and then either GW happens or not. If we do not act, and global warming happens, the enitre world economy would completely collapse, and these third world communities would be wiped out in an instant.

  • CON

    This is a much deeper topic and, i'll say again, this is...

    Manmade global climate change is real and a threat.

    This is a much deeper topic and, i'll say again, this is a scientific debates. Just because politicians have used it to pick sides, doesn't mean it has to be political. I don't feel you've sufficiently countered my points and I'll go a step further. I've found a nice article showing that it's a much deeper issue than what you have alluded to and there is plenty of evidence that, while we are increasing CO2 in the atmosphere, you're idea of threat does not have enough to stand on. http://www.americantraditions.org...(CO2)%20Does%20Not%20Cause%20Global%20Warming.htm

  • CON

    However, where I disagree is the threat. ... However, we...

    Manmade global climate change is real and a threat.

    I will agree that humans have had a measurable (not stating how measurable) effect on the Earth. However, where I disagree is the threat. The Earth has been SIGNFICANTLY hotter in the past (and more dynamic for that matter), see http://www.wrsc.org.... Do I think being "more green" is helpful, sure. However, we are not destroying the planet to the degree the stated "documentary" says. Rather than an inconvenient truth, an inaccurate partial-truth. Let's look at what's happened in the 10 years since this mess was released. http://dailycaller.com... sums it up VERY well.

  • CON

    Yes, I know that sun spot numbers dropped around the...

    Manmade global climate change is real and a threat.

    If you wanted a serious debate then you would not have ignored my entire argument. So I guess since you are not paying attention to my arguments I will just have to disprove yours instead of adding to my own. You firstly say that, "The temperature has increased .87 Celsius." This is true, but you forgot to mention that the warming period that caused this rise started in the 1700's before the industrial revolution. In addition to this, the world has been naturally warming for the last 20,000 years. You ignored large amounts of scientific data in your argument and made a claim that I agree with. The world IS WARMING!!! It just is not caused by man. https://conscioustourism.files.wordpress.com... According to your second argument, Co2 is at 400 ppm. This is true, but there has been no substantial warming for the last 20 years which is proof of how temperature and Co2 act independently. In addition to this, 25% of all Co2 released by man has been released during the last 20 year period. This in itself disproves your claim. http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com... In addition to this, Co2 has been at much higher levels in the past. To restate what I said above, "Comparing the amount of Co2 we have in the atmosphere now (400 parts per million, ppm for short) and we have had in the last 650 million years shows that now we are in a Co2 starved era. For example, look at this graph: http://www.paulmacrae.com...... Keep in mind that this graph only goes back 650 million years. Co2 has been over 10000 ppm in the past and temperature had been relatively low at that time." There may be a clear and strong positive correlation between Co2 and temperature but this correlation has been weak compared to that of sun spots. For the majority of the 1900's sun spots correlated MORE STRONGLY to temperature then Co2 did. This means that sun spots had a bigger impact then Co2 on the temperature. Yes, I know that sun spot numbers dropped around the early 2000s but that is irrelevant because for the majority of the 1900's, when tons and tons of Co2 were released, the temperature was affected more by sun spots then it was by Co2. Another thing to point out, when sun spot numbers started to drop is when the flat line in temperature began. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu... http://geoffair.net... In actual statistics, according to Joe Bastardi, Co2 has a correlation strength to temperature of just .43 (1895-2007). Other sources say that the correlation strength is just .07 or .02 (1998-2007). Compare this correlation strength to the correlation strength of sunspots and the ocean, .57 (1900-2004) and .85 (1900-2007) http://i0.wp.com... http://inspirehep.net... https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com... In conclusion, not only have you ignored the majority of my first argument, you state claims that I am not even trying to disprove. You obviously don't understand what I am trying to debate or don't know how to debate my claims. In addition to this, you gave almost no evidence to support your claims, only sources of where you got the information. If you want to have a real debate, maybe reading my arguments would help. Your welcome