PRO

  • PRO

    This concept proves that we do not consider women on the...

    THBT feminism has failed

    when we have to decide who has to stay home and look after the kids between the mother and the father, who will you choose? Mostly we choose the mother because we believe that the mother is inferior to the father, and she is not the dominant one. This concept proves that we do not consider women on the same level as men, and this is a very basic concept. But feminism still didn’t change it after fighting a battle for 4 decades!

  • PRO

    I'm here to defend that feminism doesn't teach hate...

    Feminism Does Not Equal Hate for Me

    I'm here to defend that feminism doesn't teach hate towards men and that it is also a good thing for men too. First arguments start in round 2.

  • PRO

    I want to grow up in a world were women don't get judged...

    Feminism is for equal rights for all genders not just women.

    Feminism is about gender equality and the reason it is called feminism is because even though it's about gender equality it's women who are underprivileged. I want to grow up in a world were women don't get judged if they wear makeup or if they don't wear makeup. I want to grow up in a world were if a boy wants to were makeup he can without fear of being bullied or judged. I want to grown up in a world were if a girl has short hair she isn't stereotyped as a lesbian and if a boy is flamboyant he isn't stereotyped as gay. Feminism isn't about hating men and I have to admit there are some people who use the word feminist wrong and think its about women being superior but it's not about that it's about that equality for all genders.

  • PRO

    The con can feel free to add on extra rules in the next...

    Feminism is used against men.

    Before I start the debate, let me just delve in what I mean. I think a better choice of words for the title of this debate is "Feminism is selfish" rather than "Feminism is used against men". Also a lot of people think that I'm "Calvin Cambridge", I have no idea who that is. Also, I'm apparently a sexist. For giving an opinion. Sweet! Anyway, my only rule is to list your sources. The con can feel free to add on extra rules in the next round. Alright, so lets start with the definition of feminism. According to Wikipedia, "Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at establishing equal rights for women"(http://en.wikipedia.org...). I find this ironic since feminists try to create equality between both sexes while only focusing solely on the issues of one (women). Feminists usually believe that most inequality that exists favour men over woman. This is entirely untrue. Domestic violence against men is just as common as it is against women. (http://www.oregoncounseling.org...). The only reason not many people know about this statistic is because no one cares! The media constantly portrays women as the ONLY victims of abuse, while the police usually never believes the man! Any time a man retaliates in self defence against a woman who ATTACKED him first, he is usually pinned as the instigator http://www.youtube.com... ! In society, if you attack a woman: you're a pig! If you don't retaliate: you're a coward! (See Youtube video) Next argument is about children/pregnancy. Men never get any say when it comes to abortions. It's almost always the woman's choice. If a woman isn't ready for a child and gets an abortion, the usual response is "It's alright, being a mother is hard!", yet if a man isn't ready for a child and the woman is, the response is usually "Well tough luck, now pay up you dead beat". Why is there never any sympathy towards a man? Why is it ONLY the woman's choice? The typical response is "Her body, her choice" even though this argument completely contradicts itself. If it is her body and her choice, shouldn't it also be her responsibility? The man usually has to pay after birth! Not only that, but the baby is a result of BOTH sexes! Finally, can't the "Her body, her choice" argument be used for the fetus being aborted? Then of course we have child custody, child support, and welfare. This just COMPLETELY hypocritical. Here is what it boils down to: Pregnancy - My body my choice! Child Support - Uhh....my husband can pay! It's his child too! Child Custody - Err...it's my child! Yeah, mine! Welfare - Err....my husband can pay for that also! (http://deltabravo.net...) My final argument for round 2 will be circumcision. Female genital mutilation is widely considered terrible, and a horrible traumatic experience (which it is). Yet male genital mutilation? MGM (Circumcision) is still widely practised in the U.S! The absolute travesty, is that it is performed WITHOUT CONSENT. It is a clear violation of human rights, with no benefits. A lot of feminists will say "It's just a piece of skin" even though it has scientifically been proven over 20'000 nerves are removed with circumcision (http://en.wikipedia.org...). Best of luck Con.

  • PRO

    I do believe that woman do receive the same rights of men...

    Let's talk about Feminism

    Your argument is not specific. You claim that you are against feminism yet you believe that women should have the rights as men. I do believe that woman do receive the same rights of men in some countries although feminism is not a country specific belief system. Just because you cannot name any rights that men have and women don't it doesn't mean that you are against feminism. The fact is, there is still no law enforcing equal pay for equal work. What's more, the gender wage gap becomes exponentially worse when a woman is also a person of color. According to the American Association of University Women, white women earn 78 cents to men's dollar, but black women only earn 64 cents to men's dollar. Hispanic and Latina women earn even less at 54 cents! This is just one of countless examples of women's rights that should be enforced in the UK and America. If we were to talk about other countries such as: " "Afghanistan: The average Afghan girl will live to only 45 " one year less than an Afghan male. After three decades of war and religion-based repression, an overwhelming number of women are illiterate. More than half of all brides are under 16, and one woman dies in childbirth every half hour. Domestic violence is so common that 87 per cent of women admit to experiencing it. But more than one million widows are on the streets, often forced into prostitution. Afghanistan is the only country in which the female suicide rate is higher than that of males." " "Iraq: The U.S.-led invasion to "liberate" Iraq from Saddam Hussein has imprisoned women in an inferno of sectarian violence that targets women and girls. The literacy rate, once the highest in the Arab world, is now among the lowest as families fear risking kidnapping and rape by sending girls to school. Women who once went out to work stay home. Meanwhile, more than 1 million women have been displaced from their homes, and millions more are unable to earn enough to eat." " "Nepal: Early marriage and childbirth exhaust the country's malnourished women, and one in 24 will die in pregnancy or childbirth. Daughters who aren't married off may be sold to traffickers before they reach their teens. Widows face extreme abuse and discrimination if they're labelled bokshi, meaning witches. A low-level civil war between government and Maoist rebels has forced rural women into guerrilla groups." If we were to talk about these countries then I'm sure that it is obvious, even to people against feminism, that women are not receiving equal rights. If you believe that it should stay this way in these countries then you may continue to debate this with me but judging from your argument in the second round I doubt that you interpreted this debate the way that most people have. Sources http://www.thestar.com... http://mic.com...

  • PRO

    Or even imply it. ... Why would any one stand against...

    The world needs more feminism

    I shall rebut and finally conclude. I used Australia as one example of sexism in relation to domestic violence and my opponents defense to this was that the population of Australia was to small to be seen as a valid point, perhaps I should have used India as a better example where the population is much larger and as we all know if anyone reads the news violence against women is common place. So if you lump India in there as well the numbers of deaths would sky rocket. So the women of Australia do not matter? Just because they are a minority we should disregard there suffering and say it is of no concern? I don"t see how you can look anyone, anyone in the face, or live with yourself, and say anything so hideously, wickedly immoral as that. Or even imply it. Of course 0 men being killed is a good number but it should be the same for women. I see nothing wrong with marriage at all unlike my opponent however I also see nothing wrong with ending a marriage no one should feel pressured for financial or other reasons such as the way they will be 'judged' by society to stay in an unhappy marriage and thus life. "the black family. Once equally employed and independent" I think you mean to replace "employed and independent" with forced labor and slavery. "Can you not agree, especially at a young age, women are seen as objects and temporary bragging rights opposed to a person" so you agree we do need more Or even imply it. Of course 0 men being killed is a good number but it should be the same for women. I see nothing wrong with marriage at all unlike my opponent however I also see nothing wrong with ending a marriage no one should feel pressured for financial or other reasons such as the way they will be 'judged' by society to stay in an unhappy marriage and thus life. "the black family. Once equally employed and independent" I think you mean to replace "employed and independent" with forced labor and slavery. "Can you not agree, especially at a young age, women are seen as objects and temporary bragging rights opposed to a person" so you agree we do need more feminism then. Because the way I see this this is an equality issue. All of what my opponent has said is well and good but does not really answer the question of why the would does not need more feminism my opponent talks about issues of relationships and such but this has very little to do with feminism rather about how morals and values change and develop over time. I on the other hand showed how the empowerment of women is the only known cure to poverty and how every time equality for women has risen in the third wold so has quality of life. Why would any one stand against equality for all around the world I do not know.

  • PRO

    Well I don't plan on having to rely on a sited source...

    Feminism is ruining video games

    I understand where your coming from. You say I am making assumptions without any hard data or articles to back it up. Well I don't plan on having to rely on a sited source because I don't need to. Some things are just felt and seen by people who have a love for the medium. Before getting to my Mortal Kombat point I would like to re-mention a few games brought up in this argument. Fat Princess, Metal Gear Solid 5, and Dragon Crown are all games that in FACT was ridiculed by the media for their depiction of women. Now you may say it could have just been a group of women who had no relation to feminism, but come on now? We can safely assume that the only people who would go to the lengths of complaining about a woman character being too big, or not enough clothes, or too big of breast are feminist. Now back to Mortal Kombat. No I don't have any hard data on if the majority of the fans did not like the story for the reason of the main character being a female. BUT there are a lot of forum post from various sites, videos, and blogs, of people showing their disappointment in the story. The previous game in the series was highly reviewed, especially for its story. Then the next game came out, and gameplay wise it was good. But story wise it did not live up to the previous, with a disappointing ending. As gamers, comic fans, and nerds a like. We all know the feeling when you have your favorite series that you love. Then out of no where they make the new main character a girl, or they make a female have a clear advantage over a male character who should be stronger. Do we know the reason for a fact? Do we know if it was feminism influence on gaming, or was it a creative decision? We don't know? Loyal fans can tell when a certain aspect of the series is pandering to a certain sub group. The point I'm making is that feminism ruins our games with developers making changes in favor of the feminist party. Developers now have to be more conscious of feminist insecurities to not get bad press. More and more we see story lines and characters just being "phoned in" to have a female be more powerful than a male counterpart without any validity in the context of the game. Am I saying women can't be heroes? No. Am I saying they can't be powerful? No. All I am saying for the suspension of disbelief to work the character or the story line has to show all the strengths and weakness of characters (male or female), and not just give away important roles just to please a small fraction of gamers that are displeased either way you make your story.

  • PRO

    I wish you would beat my butt, Jennifer Lopez. ... And...

    Feminism should end.

    Dang, you talk a whole bunch of crap. I wish you would beat my butt, Jennifer Lopez. Let me ask you a question, two actually, how frickin' stupid are you to put Jennifer Lopez as your name and how fake is that profile pic? First of all, Donald Trump has never been proven to be a rapist. Yes, he did cheat on his wives, but, and yes, you predicted me saying this, but so did Bill Clinton. And Bill Clinton is a sexual predator. Two, "Killing a baby means nothing"?! Wow. You really are a sack of crap. I don't know how you got married or maybe that's faked, too. This might be a shock to you, but babies lives do matter. Not only Black lives. Or African American, sorry. Three, I never said that protesters throwing feces filled balloons at policemen generalized their whole gender. It is feminism. Feminism does not represent all of women. Not every women on earth supports feminism. Look at Judge Judy. Four, Women don't get paid less due to pregnancy. That is easily the stupidest argument to back up the wage gap I've heard in a while, and that's a strong statement. Men can get Kidney Stones, which is also terrible. Heck, we can get frickin' cancer. Listening to your stupid debate is cancer, so I guess I'm right. And while I'm at it, yes, I can be wrong on certain things, (After all, I am "just a stupid 14 year old"), but I know I'm right on this. Feminsim did support equal rights for women, but that is NOT what it is today. And by the way, I listen to and watch Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder, and Fox News, so go suck one. And Donald Trump has helped this nation a lot by bringing the market back up, creating more jobs in 1 year than Obama did in 8 years, and ACTUALLY trying to stop school shootings from happening by passing laws. And frick you for saying you'd whoop my butt. You need to stop talking all this crap behind the computer and do it in real life.

  • PRO

    Any voices? ... Or at least introduce some kind of...

    Feminism is no longer beneficial to our modern society

    Sorry for forfeiting, there was a couple of urgent things I had to take care of. Since the BoP is on me, I will now give to arguments, one for the last round and one for this round. 1) Feminism had been beneficial but now we already have left the prejudice behind us. I am not saying that gender equality is no longer at presence, but only that it doesn't really matter anymore. If male truly have a significant advantage towards woman, if we really have control simply for being who we are, why would feminism even exist? And yes, you would ask me for evidence and I do have it, LOGIC. If man do have the upper hand wouldn't we want to control any outcry? Any voices? If not, wouldn't that mean we are NOT the sexist person feminism portrays us to be? 2) Feminists fail to uphold gender equality. They are hating on men and developing into a supremacy or at least gender exclusivity. If both genders are supposed to be equal, how come in every Japanese train/subway there are one whole car reserved for woman? How come feminist Marilyn Frenc's quote saying all men are rapists are still such a popular ideology with feminists? How come Room to Read and many famous foundations alike only offer academic education to women and in fact have a ad saying "Transform a Girl's Life, send her to school" on the home page and noone says anything meanwhile boy only schools are considered sexist? (St. Mary's, classic example). How come the "sorry, it's a boy" commercial was passed on to the Superbowl and even considered "Not Sexist" and to date not a single person apologised? I get it, you may think that these are just individual examples, and you may be right, however, without feminism this would be much harder to do. What I am insisting is that we simply drop feminism as an ideology in our world. Or at least introduce some kind of Masculinism without being called sexist.

  • PRO

    In answer to the first question, only 24% of women and...

    This house believes that the feminist movement should renounce the title of "Feminism".

    Before I begin, I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate. Ladies and Gentlemen this debate revolves whether the term Feminism is still needed so that equal rights could be achieved. And as side proposition, we believe that the feminist movement should renounce the title of "Feminism". Why? 1) The idea and connotations behind the word "feminism" have become so corrupted that they give gender equality activists, ie feminists, a bad name, therefore should be renounced. 2) That the meaning of the word itself is flawed. 3) The feminist movement has met its objectives, the title of "feminism"" is now no longer needed to empower women, therefore should be renounced. Let me begin by raising some statistics. In 2005, a poll conducted by CBS asked 2 questions: (1) Do you consider yourself to be a feminist, or not? (2) A feminist is someone who believes in social, political, and economic equality of the sexes. Do you think of yourself as a feminist or not? In answer to the first question, only 24% of women and 14% of men answered yes, whereas in response to the second there was a drastic increase, with over half of participants answering yes. What does this show us? This tell us that in today's society, the title of "feminism" no longer means what it should, and therefore must be renounced. The connotations behind the word have shifted from a word of empowerment and equality to a title that can only be taken with the belief that women are superior to men. It has become associated with feminist extremists and misandrists who damage the integrity of the title itself. Although these people do not represent the majority of feminists, this is what the word has come to mean. With a world dominated by the media, the gross exaggeration of "feminist" ideals has tainted the feminist movement's image, and consequently make people shy away from feminism. The title of "feminism" is in fact doing harm to the feminist movement by discouraging potential support with its bad rep. Carrying on with this, we can see that the word "feminism" takes on many more meanings that it originally entailed. Liberal feminism, radical feminism, marxist feminism, cultural feminism, ecofeminism. Search deeper and there are probably a myriad of examples. The title "feminism" has branched off and diversified so much so that it has become difficult to ascertain what it truly means to be a feminist. It is no longer true to its initial meaning, and in fact clouds people's knowledge of feminism itself, confusing them and further alienating potential feminists. Again we can see from this that the title of "feminism" is doing more harm to the feminist movement than good. Moving on to my second substantive: The the word itself has limitations. The word feminism is inherently inferior, as it fails to regard the rights and contributions of half of the other half of the population. Obviously in the past it has served its purpose to empower women, but in the present many feminists have come to take the stance that men cannot be part of the feminist movement. This is holding back the progress of the feminist movement, and becoming a huge obstacle in feminism's true purpose: to promote equal rights for both sexes. It is much inferior to a universal term such as "equalism", which takes into account the contributions and opinions of all groups in society. This is another reason why the title "feminism" should be renounced: because equality cannot progress beyond a certain point until such exclusive terms are abandoned. I will be introducing my 3rd point in the coming round.

CON

  • CON

    One person tried to enter the building and was denied...

    Is Radical Feminism Hurting More than Helping

    Radical Feminism has been more abundant recently. There is one case where there was a protest outside of a lecture hall at the University of Toronto. Radical Feminists blocked the entrance of the building. One person tried to enter the building and was denied access and humiliated by the protesters. That person was looking for closure after two of his friends committed suicide. Radical Feminism is usually criticized for believing that men are the ultimate source of women oppression. The "patriarchy" , laws created by men, are not the reason women are in "oppression", it is the gender roles created as a whole society which creates harm to both genders. (Not true ,but stupid common stereotypes) "Females are physically weak" causes the gender role of males being strong protectors. If males are not "manly" they get criticized by males and females. "Males always want sexual intercourse" causes men to believe that they want sex, and the stereotype stops them from reporting rape. "He probably liked it" Radical One person tried to enter the building and was denied access and humiliated by the protesters. That person was looking for closure after two of his friends committed suicide. Radical Feminism is usually criticized for believing that men are the ultimate source of women oppression. The "patriarchy" , laws created by men, are not the reason women are in "oppression", it is the gender roles created as a whole society which creates harm to both genders. (Not true ,but stupid common stereotypes) "Females are physically weak" causes the gender role of males being strong protectors. If males are not "manly" they get criticized by males and females. "Males always want sexual intercourse" causes men to believe that they want sex, and the stereotype stops them from reporting rape. "He probably liked it" Radical That person was looking for closure after two of his friends committed suicide. Radical Feminism is usually criticized for believing that men are the ultimate source of women oppression. The "patriarchy" , laws created by men, are not the reason women are in "oppression", it is the gender roles created as a whole society which creates harm to both genders. (Not true ,but stupid common stereotypes) "Females are physically weak" causes the gender role of males being strong protectors. If males are not "manly" they get criticized by males and females. "Males always want sexual intercourse" causes men to believe that they want sex, and the stereotype stops them from reporting rape. "He probably liked it" Radical Feminism does not address these utterly important points. There is active sexism against men too and Radical Feminism harms and adds to the stereotypes of men. Protest I was referring to

  • CON

    There may be minor minor bits that could be seen as...

    Is feminism needed in today's society

    In today's modern society, feminism is not needed. There is no factual evidence that women have it harder than men. There may be minor minor bits that could be seen as unfair but that goes both ways for men and women. You can't get society perfect down to the minute, it's just not possible and it requires too much time.

  • CON

    2013: the first ever woman to bring a gender...

    Feminism is irrelevant, unjust and flawed. It should be stopped.

    Thanks to feminism not dying in the 1980s, the following events were made possible in the 1990s and 2000s. -1991: the U.S. Senate voted to open combat positions for women aviators. -1992: four more women were elected into the U.S. Senate. -1994: the Gender Equity in Education Act was passed, banning gender stereotyping and discrimination in the classroom. -1994: marital rape was banned in the UK. -1994: the Violence Against Women Act was passed in the U.S. -2007: the Forced Marriage (Civil Protection) Act was passed in the UK. -2013: the first ever woman to bring a gender discrimination lawsuit in China won her case and received an official apology from the discriminating party. Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org... Feminism still has a place because not all men respect women equally, and vice versa. However, both men and women are on the right track to gender equality. Feminism is not irrelevant or unjust; a movement for equal gender rights is neither of those things. Misandry and misogyny will not go down without a fight, and Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org... Feminism still has a place because not all men respect women equally, and vice versa. However, both men and women are on the right track to gender equality. Feminism is not irrelevant or unjust; a movement for equal gender rights is neither of those things. Misandry and misogyny will not go down without a fight, and feminism is part of that battle.

  • CON

    I accept. ... I would like to add that I am not in any...

    Feminism: Equality of the Sexes

    I accept. I would like to add that I am not in any way anti-feminist and am not calling for the abolishment of the movement (as I definitely agree, support, and follow certain aspects of the ideology) but there are flaws in feminism, modern and historical, that I would like to bring to light, particularly the lack of emphasis on race, ethnicity, and economic class.

  • CON

    There are some dummies who do but that is rare and our...

    Feminism is Wrong

    As my rebuttal, I stated that women make way less than men. You say that it isn't the case. You aren't looking at the facts right, then. That was a comparison. When we were debating in the comments as well, you stated that women are paid more. No they aren't in most cases, and when they are being paid more, it's less than a $0.10 difference!!! No, you say I may not be correct, but in the end I AM stating facts. I'm not being taken seriously because I'm young, and I understand that. But, I can make a stand point to be correct in the end. My mother and father went into the same work force, took the exact job. They compared checks at the end of every two weeks and my mother always made less. "Women choose lower paying and more comfortable jobs while men do more dangerous and higher paying jobs". No, not all women do. Some women, such as my aunt, work at places such as Olin Brass Company ( where I'm from). So this just knocks that rebuttal out the ball park. Women ARE just as capable as men. Women aren't as strong, but they are wise, just as men, and can do things. "There are some dummies who do but that is rare and our society as a whole looks at them like they are fools" Well where I was from, it was common. I seen this all the time. It was just something that looked normal in my city. This, for that reason caused us to leave the city. We didn't ever go back there, and haven't ever went back to this day. "Women tend to be teachers while men go off and risk their lives in an oil rig." Well, in this case you're stating that its almost unethical to find a woman working in an oil rig, because they would rather be teachers. Well, that's basically a sexist statement in itself. "I think we have a feminist paradox where feminism is saying women should have less rights!" You are correct, in a stand point. But, you are also wrong. Because, what I am fighting for in feminism, and sexism is that everyone can do everything, and not be judged for it. It's something that I feel I stand for. You have very valid points, but I'm still going to believe in that everyone needs to be equal. Women, African American, Caucasian American ! We all are missing our equality.

  • CON

    It's like looking at what the IRA sought for ( a united...

    Feminism is beneficial to Western society.

    Prologue Unfortunately, Pro has not been able to post her opening argument. However, I will not refrain from arguing this round. I am not against the advocacy of equality; if anything, refer to me as an egalitarian. However, the reasons why I am personally against feminism will appear in this argument. This will mainly consist of how the feminist campaign produce, and advocate false arguments to further their privileges. For this reason, it is detrimental to society. Arguments Wage Gap A very popular argument among feminists is the wage gap. This is however, not argued correctly. The argument normally assumes the following form: P1: There is a gap from the average, overall earnings between males and females P2: This is due to gender discrimination in the workplace C: The wage gap is caused by gender discrimination in the workplace This may appear valid, but it is impossible for feminists to deem premise two with decent veracity... To keep this argument short, I will post a popular article posted by a feminist, and I invite Pro to do the same. Nevertheless, all arguments that relate to the aforementioned syllogism, boil down to the same falsity; no empirical evidence to assert the cogency of premise two. This source was produced by Lisa M. Maatz, who is arguing the validity of this syllogism. As a defense of premise one she states: "For the last decade, median earnings for women working full time, year-round have been just 77% of men’s earnings" (1) Despite this being a bare assertion, I will help her out with premise one: " 2010 the median income of FTYR workers was $42,800 for men, compared to $34,700 for women. The female-to-male earnings ratio was 0.81" (2) So, premise one is now valid. Alright, now for the entire argument to be sound, premise two must be valid as well. As a defense of premise two, she states: well... Nothing. Well, she did mention one case that happened in 2003. However, this commits the anecdotal fallacy; just because one woman experienced unequal pay, does not verify that the entire wage gap is due to discrimination. Since premise two, lacks validity, the argument itself is not sound. I affirm that this is the case for all of the arguments that assume the syllogism. I invite my adversary to post as many sources she likes to corroborate premise two. All of the sources appear to commit an unwarranted assumption fallacy. That being said, I will now provide sufficient evidence to debunk the wage gap entirely: This source produced by CONSAD Research Corporation, deduces that the wage gap is in fact due to: "Agreater percentage of women than men tend towork part-time. Part-time work tends topay less than full-timework" "Agreater percentage of women than men tend toleave the labor force for child birth, childcare and elder care. Some of the wage gap isexplained by the percentage of womenwhowere not in the labor force during previousyears, the age of women, and the number ofchildren in the home. " "Women, especially working mothers, tend tovalue “family friendly” workplace policiesmore than men. Someof the wage gap is explained by industry and occupation, particularly,the percentage of women who workin the industry and occupation." (3) And this doesn't even mention all variables. That source is also corroborated by (4)(5)(6)(7) This pertains to the resolution, since it is unreasonable just to look at the definition and deduce that "equality is good, and since feminism wants equality, then feminism ought to be good". It's like looking at what the IRA sought for ( a united Ireland) and then deducing that the IRA must be good as well, despite them using violent forces to try and achieve what they wanted. For this reason, Pro cannot say that feminism cannot be detrimental to society just because of what feminism denotes; we ought to argue for, or against the feminist campaign. Rape Culture We all see the feminist campaign argue for rape. Another reason for feminism being detrimental to society is that, they seem to feed women false ammunition. They feed women the victim card, by extensively telling them how they are treated unfairly. Rape culture is one of these things. Yes, rape is bad. But, feminism seems to make it a thing, that women are the victims and men are the big bag wolfs. The real statistics are: "Along the CDC's report, the US census has recorded in 2011, in the United States, .052% of US women are forcibly raped annually". (8) This is far less then what feminism commonly asserts. In fact, from the same article, we can see men are the vast majority of homicide victims: "[Based on Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Reports Supplementary Homicide Reports.]" It appears very apparent to me, that the severity of murder supersedes the severity of rape. And, if one were to factor in prison rapes, there is a clear indicator that men can be raped more than women. (9)(10) Feminists, nor the feminist campaign advocate for less "male homicides"; this is a double standered that seems to go unnoticed... Gender Roles Men and women all had their own stations... Women were generally the care takers, and men did the food-getting, the working etc. Feminism advocates that basic gender roles are sexist to females, because they assert women are just as capable of doing the jobs as males. Albeit, some women were able to do the tasks that men could, but naturally, sexual dimorphism dictates that men are the "stronger" gender. (11) If we were to apply this feminist logic to literally any other topic, we can deduce that male ducks are sexist, because they are more colourful than female ducks. Because men are genetically stronger than females, they were the more suitable gender to part take in the more muscle-demanding tasks. Gender roles isn't sexist; it is basic biology. In fact, the same logic can be reversed - gender roles are also against men, because they are not as suitable to take the caring tasks. The argument is moot and completely unecessary. All laws constitute that gender is not a factor when determining who gets the job, pay, privileges etc. (12)(13) Unnecessary Advocation of an Increased Amount of Rights and Privileges I postulate that women have more legal rights, and social privileges than their male counterparts (14). This source proposes 5 rights that women have, that men don't. Men are systematically circumcised in many countries without consent, whereas, women can keep their genital integrity. To vote, men must give their life to the draft if needed. A woman can have abortions, and a man cannot without her consent. Women are assumed caregivers for children, because they are women. Women can cry "rape" falsely, with infinitesimally small legal repercussions. Not to mention numerous privileges (15). My fiftheenth source cites around 60 major privileges that women have over their male counterparts. And after all this, feminism still claims that women need more rights than males. There is equality; feminism is unnecessary; women do not need any more rights, nor privileges. How I Fulfilled my Burden of Proof 1. The feminist campaign produces false statistics 2. The feminists feed women false ammunition 3. The feminist campaign make situations problematic for no apparent reason 4. Women have all necessary rights and privileges The first point is axiomatic in terms of detrimental effects on society. They produce false arguments about the wage gap, to affirm that women are treated unfairly. The second point is that they extensively tell women there is inequality when there isn't. They are told that they are constantly that they are the vast majority of victims of rape etc. whilst they ignore statistics about the detriments of males. The third point is apparent when you consider the gender roles argument. There isn't a prolem with gender roles, yet they twist it around to make it seem like there is a problem - it is simple biology - sexual dimorphism. The fourth and final point is that women have all the necessary rights as males - even more rights than males, yet still expect more. This is in turn, detrimental and unneccesary in society. If I, as Con, fulfill my burden of proof, I negate the resolution. Therefore, I win the argument. Closing Statements I would post more arguments, but I have ran out of characters. Hopefully Pro can appear for round three, and we can have a decent argument. Good luck to you Pro for the next round and the remainder of the argument, and thanks for instigating this topic. My spell checker is buggy, so if there are any spelling mistakes, I apologize. Citations (1) http://www.forbes.com... (2) http://www.bls.gov... (3) http://www.consad.com... (4) http://www.huffingtonpost.com... (5) http://www.forbes.com... (6) http://www.cbsnews.com... (7) http://billmoyers.com... (8) http://www.census.gov... (9) https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com... (10) http://www.dailymail.co.uk... (11) http://en.wikipedia.org... (12) http://www.equalityhumanrights.com... (13) http://www.eeoc.gov... (14) http://thoughtcatalog.com... (15) https://mensresistance.wordpress.com...

  • CON

    Feminism, n. 1. the doctrine advocating social,...

    Feminism is not an ideology of equality

    I notice you provided no definitions, so I will. Feminism, n. 1. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.[1] Therefore, any ideology which is not of equality (between genders that is, a philosophy can be racist, homophobic, etc. while still being feminist) are not feminist. [1]http://dictionary.reference.com...

  • CON

    I will be accepting this debate on the grounds that we do...

    Feminism is still necessary today

    I will be accepting this debate on the grounds that we do not need feminism in this country anymore for it has done some good things but has evolved to the point that all it does now is degrading males and trying to get more rights for women while men get less rights. I will now turn my debate over to pro for their side of the argument

  • CON

    I'm sure everyone knows America has never had a female...

    Feminism! Hooray!

    Thanks, Cartidge. Glad I got your neurons firing. I understand the main goal of feminism is simply to gain equal rights. I agree with the goal, I disagree with the actions feminists take to "achieve" this goal. "Achieve" in quotations due to the fact that we do have equal rights and we do have equal opportunities and we are treated equally. I have a couple examples of feminists (unknowingly) asking for more rights than men - Rape culture According to the site I got this picture from [1], "...or make it seem like rape is an everyday occurrence that cannot be avoided," is said, which implies rape can be avoided. So either feminists can't make up their mind, or they can't accept the fact that they can avoid rape - by dressing differently, acting differently, and overall ensuring the situation they're in is a safe one. Unfortunately for common sense's sake, most feminists tend not to understand that bad things happen, and a big part of avoiding those bad things is... well, avoiding them. Facebook pages [2], blogs [3], and other media outlets seem to think that teaching men not to rape makes more sense than teaching people in general to try and keep themselves safe. Considering this is only brought up with rape against women, and zero other forms of crime, this is a prime example of women/feminists asking for special privilege over men, even if they apparently don't realize it. Victim blaming This falls into the same category as rape culture, it is implied that if we follow through with standard criminal investigative procedures, we are essentially blaming the victim for the crime committed against them [4]. Now this is simply not true. I'll share a brief story with you while we're on the topic of victim blaming - I was challenged a few times in high school, and when I was in grade 11, I was mugged by a couple guys. I filed a police report and the cops came to my house to ask questions and if I could identify the guys, etc. They also asked what I was wearing. So you know what I did? I told them what I was wearing. And you know what they did? They told me the gangs that were affiliated with the colours and brands of clothing I liked to wear. Christian Audigier and Dussault were big "gang colours" where I'm from, and the cops suggested I not wear clothes like that. So I stopped wearing clothes like that, and whattaya know, nobody even challenged me for the rest of my time in high school. So what did I take from that? I sure didn't say "they blamed me, let's start a tumblr group against victim-blaming mugging-culture police officers." This whole idea of "victim blaming" is also essentially trying to grant women more rights than men. It's implying women should not be questioned and women should not have to be careful in life because men should be taught to behave. Fun fact: (almost) everyone is taught the difference between right and wrong from a very young age. Some men and some women (yes, women can be bad too) have mental issues or are just not taught properly how to interact with society, so they do bad things. Avoiding those people is kind of smart, wouldn't you say? Affirmative Action Now I'm against affirmative action to begin with. Giving someone a position over another more qualified person simply because they represent a minority is not beneficial to businesses or society or the economy. One major area feminists ask for "special treatment" (getting positions simply for being female) is political [5]. I'm sure everyone knows America has never had a female president and only about a quarter of office is female. Now it gets kind of tricky here, because I do believe there should be equal representation for every group of people in office to an extent, however when it comes to blatantly saying "more women need to be in office," that is asking for special rights or privileges. If men are elected over women, it's because they're more qualified than the women and the general public feels so. If a man is elected over a man, nobody bats an eye, but when a man is elected over a woman, all of a sudden it's sexism and discrimination. We can't elect female government officials simply because they "don't make up an equal portion to men." And just an FYI - women don't run for office nearly as much as men [6], so why should MORE women be elected if they don't run as much? Peer Pressure This will be short as there isn't a lot to say here, but this mostly deals with feminists complaining that women don't make up "equal amounts of job positions," while they give reasons as to why they themselves don't want to join that career path. Anita Sarkeesian (hooray) is a very popular feminist icon, mostly in regards to video games. She made a twitter post a while ago [7] saying game developers anger her because they consider it "too much work/time/money" to create female game characters (even though there are hundreds that can be named in very popular games throughout the decades), while she herself isn't doing a thing about it other than complaining. So in a nutshell, feminism also affects other women, as feminists complain that there aren't enough women in fields, such as game development, while they aren't doing anything to "lessen the gender gap" in these industries. Same goes for politics. "Objectification" I don't think you've really shown how this is necessarily a bad thing. Humans are attracted to each other. Men like women, women like men. Sex sells. Also, this is not objectification. Objectification implies the person is treated as less than human and is only looked at for their body. To be considered attractive does not make them less than human. I am not attracted to a lamp. I am not attracted to a table. I am attracted to a human. If that human is being attractive to get what they want, or to sell something, that's their choice - for feminism to say they should stop what they're doing because they consider it "wrong" is wrong in itself. Sex is not a bad thing. Feminism acts as if it is. ....Which is detrimental to basically human culture and life. Steubenville Rape Case The two teens involved were sentenced, and four other people were charged [8] in relation to this crime. One news source getting attention in a different type of way is strange, however a newswoman approaching the case from a different angle does not represent the media as a whole or society as a whole. And looking at the amount of backlash, I can guarantee you that you, me, and loads of other people all disagree with what she said. One newswoman explaining how the kids could have had good lives is not a very good example of anything other than one person being ignorant/uncaring. Female nudes When photographs such as these are leaked, the only attention (usually empathy) is given to women. If anything compromising I took were leaked, I'd say "rats, I shouldn't have sent those," and leave it at that. Just like rape, there are bad people out there, but it makes sense to be safe... There has been numerous occasions of nudes leaked of males [9], and you know what happens? Nothing. No media outrage. No feminist group calling for the heads of the aggressors. In fact, people enjoy it when male nudes are leaked. So this affects both men and women, yet women get the sympathy and attention, while the media practically asks people to dig up male nudes. Once again, a problem affecting both genders, yet feminism focuses on one. Abortion When someone is against abortion, it isn't because they want to oppress women. It's usually due to religious reasons, and if not, it's because they consider human life important. I'm 100% on your side in regards to abortion, but unfortunately I disagree with what it means when someone is against it. I don't consider male circumcision sexism against men, as pro-circumcizers (lol) have "valid" reasoning as to why circumcision is a "good" thing. Same goes for abortion, it isn't sexism or misogyny or the patriarchy, it's people believing killing an unborn baby is a bad thing. Just like circumcision is a "good" thing as it is for cleanliness, apparently prevents STDs (no idea) etc. NOT misandry. Pay Gap For the source that you cited to be reliable, it needs to back up its figures. It also needs to provide much more specific job titles. "Supervisors of retail sales workers" is so broad that it's basically the same as saying "women earn less than men in general." A difference in pay between two people is not automatically assumed to be discrimination of any sort. Two groups of people? Teachers in British Columbia, Canada, earn about 18% less than teachers in Alberta, Canada [10]. Now this is taking all types of people into consideration. So you'll seriously need to prove it's sexism when one group of people is paid less than another, and not just job performance, education, unpaid leave, etc. Domestic Violence And men are victims of violent crime much more than women [11]. Laws and police exist to prevent this, not feminists or MRA's. Domestic violence is an issue for the cops, not feminism. Feminists are asking for the laws to favour them, to not have any safety concerns, and for companies to hire them because "it would be sexist not to." I'd like to see some stuff feminism is currently doing for men, if you can. [1] http://dayofthegirl.org... [2] https://www.facebook.com... [3] http://hurt2healingmag.com... [4] http://www.feminist.com... [5] http://www.equalvoice.ca... [6] http://www.theatlantic.com... [7] https://twitter.com... [8] http://www.huffingtonpost.com... [9] http://www.thegailygrind.com... [10] http://globalnews.ca... [11] http://www.victimsweek.gc.ca....

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Feminism-Hooray/1/
  • CON

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics states that females in the...

    Feminism is no longer beneficial in America

    I'm gonna break it (his argument) down, with logic [1]. CONTENTION ONE: NO SOURCES My round one argument is: "Pro provided no sources" [2]. However, "you need evidence to win" [3]. Thus, Pro cannot win. CONTENTION TWO: INEQUALITY IS REAL Pro: There is inequality among both genders. Women are just as privileged as men[.] Just because both genders aren't treated fully fairly does not mean the levels of inequality are the same for both genders. For example, women face a significant pay gap. The Bureau of Labor Statistics states that females in the U.S. on average currently earn 81.2% of male earnings [4]. The Joint Economic Committee states that the gender pay gap persists across all occupations, such as physicians and surgeons (64.4%), salespersons (70.6%), truck drivers (76.4%), attorneys (80.5%), and management personnel [5]. A recent Government Accountability Office study, accounting for a wide variety of observable differences between male and female management personnel, found that female management personnel on average earn 81% of male earnings [5]. The Joint Economic Committee states that the gender pay gap persists across all educational levels [5]. The gender pay gap cannot be attributed solely to familial responsibilities, because a recent Government Accountability report found that management personnel who are mothers earn 79% of management personnel who are fathers [5]. (Furthermore, even if the gender pay gap can be attributed in part to familial responsibilities, the fact that females currently perform 66% of household tasks [6] is merely another example of male privilege.) Part-time jobs exacerbate the problem, because female part-time workers earn only 58% of male part- time workers [5]. The gender pay gap results in part due to the lower average wages of professions that females are employed in [7]; however, (a) the pay gap persists accross occupations, as mentioned, and (b) the skewed representation of females in certain professions results from institutional bias against females in those professions [7]. At all levels, a promotion bias of 2:1 exists for males [6]. Females advance slowly in male-dominated fields [6], while males advance quickly in female-dominated fields [6]. Females that more aggressively pursue better pay or career advancement are discriminated against [6], which helps prevent changes to this status quo. Thus, women are NOT just as privileged as men. CONTENTION THREE: "MEDIA JUGGERNAUT" Pro: [F]eminism is becoming a dangerous juggernaut in the media. Pro has to prove the following things: 1: The Bureau of Labor Statistics states that females in the U.S. on average currently earn 81.2% of male earnings [4]. The Joint Economic Committee states that the gender pay gap persists across all occupations, such as physicians and surgeons (64.4%), salespersons (70.6%), truck drivers (76.4%), attorneys (80.5%), and management personnel [5]. A recent Government Accountability Office study, accounting for a wide variety of observable differences between male and female management personnel, found that female management personnel on average earn 81% of male earnings [5]. The Joint Economic Committee states that the gender pay gap persists across all educational levels [5]. The gender pay gap cannot be attributed solely to familial responsibilities, because a recent Government Accountability report found that management personnel who are mothers earn 79% of management personnel who are fathers [5]. (Furthermore, even if the gender pay gap can be attributed in part to familial responsibilities, the fact that females currently perform 66% of household tasks [6] is merely another example of male privilege.) Part-time jobs exacerbate the problem, because female part-time workers earn only 58% of male part- time workers [5]. The gender pay gap results in part due to the lower average wages of professions that females are employed in [7]; however, (a) the pay gap persists accross occupations, as mentioned, and (b) the skewed representation of females in certain professions results from institutional bias against females in those professions [7]. At all levels, a promotion bias of 2:1 exists for males [6]. Females advance slowly in male-dominated fields [6], while males advance quickly in female-dominated fields [6]. Females that more aggressively pursue better pay or career advancement are discriminated against [6], which helps prevent changes to this status quo. Thus, women are NOT just as privileged as men. CONTENTION THREE: "MEDIA JUGGERNAUT" Pro: [F]eminism is becoming a dangerous juggernaut in the media. Pro has to prove the following things: 1: Feminism wasn't a juggernaut in the media in the past (or else "no longer" no longer applies) 2: Feminism is a juggernaut in the media 3: Feminism being a juggernaut in the media is a bad thing 4: Sample text 5: "Juggernauts" in the media can exist 6: Feminism is actually a unified group that uses its power to silence other views within the media, rather than a set of people who share an ideology, comparable to the near-universal support of near-universal free speech in the media 7: Juggernaut is a definable term, and not some "scary" term 8: The feminist juggernaut poses "dangerous" threats to people; merely saying words isn't dangerous, so Pro has to show the feminist juggernaut physically threatens people [1] (Break It Down, by Logic) [2] https://www.google.com... [3] https://www.google.com...; [4] bls.gov/cps/wlf-databook-2011.pdf (p. 52) [5] jec.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.Serve&File_id=9118a9ef-0771-4777-9c1f-8232fe70a45c (p. 9-11) [6] gender-competence.eu/files/IntConf/5.pdf (p. 6-7, 11) [7] iwpr.org/initiatives/pay-equity-and-discrimination