PRO

  • PRO

    Thank you jwesbruce for accepting my challenge.first of...

    The world should focus on climate change than on global economy!

    Thank you jwesbruce for accepting my challenge.first of all i would like to define the word climate change.climate change is a significant and lasting change in the statistical distribution of weather patterns over periods ranging from decades to millions of years.it may be a change in average weather conditions or in the distribution of weather around avarege conditions.my main point on this issue is that climate change comes before the global economy so the world should focus on climate change.because if we do not focus on climate change it means that our land will be affected.e.g what if we have things such as global warming?that will be a case of one country but the world as whole will be affected.i would like to give you a very good axample by one country.let it be Zimbabwe.if there is global warming in Zimbabwe that means Zimbabwe can not produce the products it was manufacturing before because we manufacture products from raw materials.the country will have to depend on the other countries.that means there is no state income for that country.that is a process ,the economy that you were focusing on it start to decline.that will force you to go back and come with ways of ending global warming.because the economy of a country is sustained by the primary sector.how can you plant your seeds without the ground?and now where is people those are living in that country?is poverty not there?some firms will be closed up and people will be unemployed

  • PRO

    Perhaps now our data is biased on both sides, pro- or...

    Taking a Stand Against Climate Change with Greener Technologies

    I would like to thank 16kadams for a wonderful first debate, here at DDO. I also must admit that my opponent has put forth very valid arguments, some of which I greatly agree with. I hope that in the future -- when I am a more developed debater -- I may challenge him again. As for my correlation of CO2 to warming, I must stand strong with it. I am aware that it was not the largest factor, but this correlation rate will continue to drop as the ppm of Carbon Dioxide rises, as it is an inverse equality. This is not me conceding the fact that there is a correlation, but that as our world becomes more laden with CO2, each molecule will have less and less of an effect. 1. Global Warming is real and is a threat I do not believe in Global Warming, as it means to show that the whole planet is warming (which I do not believe), but I understand the general use of the term now, even in ways to describe climate change. I believe that there is a vast change in our climate, and will continue to be as such. Perhaps now our data is biased on both sides, pro- or con-climate change. 2. Caused by humans I am well aware of the natural cycles of warming in Earth's geological history. Never before have we experienced such a sharp upward clime of Carbonppm without a natural calamity (such as eruptions, meteor collisions, etc.). To refute Con's claims on the 2,000-3,000ppm pf Carbon 60mya, I will use the same data as in my round 3. I used data from 66mya, 60mya, and 58mya, just to make sure I had all my bases covered, in case of his 60mya figure being an estimate. My attempted refute on your round2 source 7 was based on the grounds that our methods of measuring have become more efficient and accurate, so the data could be deemed inaccurate today (only a speculation). 3. Fixing the problem We are not ready to drop non-renewable fossil fuels. The profit is greater, and the amount of energy produced from these fuels far exceeds renewable energy. Hopefully, that can change. If not for a hopefully cleaner planet, then simply for the fact that we are going to run out one day. However, we will continue to grow in our ability to produce cheaper sustainable energy. In conclusion I have done the best in my ability to refute the claims Con has made and stabilize my views and hopes for the future. I hope to one day challenge another debater to a similar topic when I am more experienced.

  • PRO

    It must be noted that the graph my opponent uses does not...

    Resolved: Climate change is, on balance, anthropogenic in origin

    In R1 global warming was defined as an average increase in temperature since the late 19th century. We have caused pretty much all of the warming since 1976 and a significant percent of the pre-1940 warming, with a cooling spell between the late 40s to early 70s because of human aerosol emissions and a decline in TSI. King’s entire argument is… paleoclimate. But I don’t have to prove that we caused warming 500 million years ago, only since around 1870 or so. Paleoclimatology does have an application in this debate: whether or not CO2 causes (or doesn’t cause) past climate changes is important. It can prove whether or not CO2 has any influence on the climate. My opponent’s conclusion — that I have to prove changes before the industrial revolution — breaks rule 6, and warrants an automatic merit loss. I will refute the case anyway, but only the relevant details: A) Phanerozoic temperature record King shows us a graph plotting temperature and CO2 throughout the phanerozoic eon, and tells us that there is no correlation. For at least the last few thousand years, CO2 has had a strong impact on climate [1]. Unfortunately,King’s graph uses a study which I preempted. It must be noted that the graph my opponent uses does not show the error bars, so any correlation (or non correlation) is uncertain at best. And, as I argued last round, the man who made the graph (GEOCARB; Berner 2001) actually says that there exists a long term correlation between temperature and carbon dioxide [2]. Berner’s study also fails to take into account saturation effects. When this is accounted for, the correlation between CO2 and temperature is almost perfect [3]. So, the second graph my opponent uses is blatantly incorrect. Not only do the authors of the data say that I am correct, not only do the error bars tell us that the results are not really with my opponent, but a separate analysis *improving* the methodology finds a nearly *perfect* correlation between CO2 and temperature. B) More recent temperature changes The graph my opponent uses seems like a sketchy-tabloid esque graph. There is no reason to trust it. The data is not so cut and dry, especially because data exists showing that temperatures are warmer — not cooler — than temperatures within the past 1000 years [4]. And the timescale king uses is cherry picked. Using the past 65 million years, CO2 is the predominant climate forcing of temperature changes [5]. Research focusing on the past few interglacials — which includes king’s graph — has concluded that CO2 “plays . . . a key role in amplifying the initial orbital forcing.” [6] Plus, the graph king uses does not take into account other forcings. Of course other factors exist in climate — I am not arguing that CO2 is the only one, only that is can be (and is) a forcing since about 1870. Climate changes in response to whatever forcing exists at that date and time. And today, CO2 is driving climate. Just like how short term (volcanoes) and long-term (GCR fluctuations) can all affect climate, CO2 has *always* played *some* role in climate. On some timescales, it is dominant [3][4]. Merely because climate has changed for other reasons does not mean that humans have no effect. Most of the time, it is not a gun which kills a person, but it would be wrong to conclude that guns do not kill. Just because climate has changed before does not necessarily mean that our change is natural. C) Humans have only existed for 200,000 years So? 1. https://www.skepticalscience.com... 2. http://earth.geology.yale.edu... 3. http://www.sciencedirect.com... 4. http://www.meteo.psu.edu... 5. http://droyer.web.wesleyan.edu... 6. http://icebubbles.ucsd.edu...

  • PRO

    The greenhouse effect was discovered by a French...

    Reserved for FollowerofChrist: Climate change is real and a massive threat to humanity.

    This is extremely confusing. You start off by saying that Maurice Strong is a criminal. He's not. Then you go on to rant about how climate change is an immoral commie agenda. I assume this is who you re talking about when you say he "created" climate change. He didn't. The greenhouse effect was discovered by a French physicist named Joseph Fourier in 1824. the first correlation beteen CO2 and temperature was discovered in 1900, by a Swede named Knut Angstrom. Mauna Loa began working in 1958. The first concern about climate change came in 1965, when the President was warned about climate change by a council of scientists. So tell me, how did Maurice start ALL of climate change? 2. This is a blog, and the IPCC is much more credible source. 3. (a) That's not how climate or averages work. They average thousands of sites across the globe, and they all indicate warming. (b) Oceans are indeed rising. YOu have no clue how continental drift works either, do you? COntinental drift doesn't happen at that rate, "dummy". Here's a source: https://www.climate.gov... 4. It is not trivial, but it is appeal to authority fallacy. 5. Please read the sources I've provided. They'll help. Hockey stick was not broken, and many replications have shown the same result. https://www.skepticalscience.com... there it is My opponent has repeatedly used incorrect information, fallacious reasoning, faulty logic, ad hominems, and has his whole argument structured around proof by repetition. Therefore, i strongly urge a vote to the pro(affirmative).

  • PRO

    6. ... Unless the geopolitics of global warming change...

    Humans already change climate; geoengineering not new

    Bryan Wassh. "6. Geoengineering". Time, What's Next in 2008: "the truth is, we're already performing an unauthorized experiment on our climate by adding billions of tons of man-made carbon dioxide to the atmosphere. Unless the geopolitics of global warming change soon, the Hail Mary pass of geoengineering might become our best shot."

    • http://www.debatepedia.org/en/index.php/Debate:_Geoengineering%2C_solar_shading
  • PRO

    The sun drives the global climate

    Man made climate change is a myth

    The sun drives the global climate

    • https://debatewise.org/debates/1757-man-made-climate-change-is-a-myth/
  • PRO

    Based on greenhouse theory the correlation should be...

    Climate Change is driven by human CO2 emissions

    Dear audience, please excuse my opponent for his outrageous conduct. During this round, if anyone has been manipulated by the fiendish approach my opponent has set, I will set them straight in this round. REBUTTALS "My opponent claims any correlation is harmful, but this actually still concedes the point. If CO2 was the main driver of climate, which is what we are debating, then it stands to reason a correlation between CO2 and temperature would be strong. If it was a large factor, it should have a correlation of some significance, though as shown its correlation was under the .5 marks and is therefore NOT significantly correlated enough to be considered a large factor in climate change." This, Mr. Adams, is why I am concerned on your motives of conduct, if you are willing to stoop to such a low in this debate. I will quote what YOU said in the opening round, in which I agreed to and accepted. "PRO (my opponent) argues these CO2 emissions cause global warming (which we assume exists). CON argues that global warming is primarily controlled by human emissions. " You have lost this debate, because you have admitted to C02 emissions factoring into global warming! You made a very poor mistake in doing this Mr. Adams. Next time, I advise you to pay closer attention to such things. ALL I have to do in this debate is to PROVE TO YOU THAT C02 EMISSIONS EFFECT CLIMATE CHANGE! I have done this plenty of times, and can continue doing so as much as I please, because this is SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN! "And good, my opponent found the study! And it’s exactly what I cited! One must note, however, the correlation looks strong in the graph but when one looks at the facts we see this is false. We see multiple breaks in the correlation where the trend slows when CO2 rates climb and the opposite occurring on many points in the graph." I must say, I laugh out loud when I read this. You must not have read your source very well, because it actually incriminates your point. And when you are called out on it, you say that it is FALSE! There, dear audience, you have heard it straight from my opponents own mouth. He is saying that the sources he has used in this debate are completely and utterly FALSE! Thus we cannot credit anything he has said in this ENTIRE debate, as apparently his sources all show mis-conducted information. This, however I already knew, and hopefully the audience did as well, given the vast amount of research and evidence I have shown you all strictly contradicting his evidence. "The graph also is faulty as it ignores the correlation in the last decade by using faulty data." Let's keep in mind, that this is the graph from my OPPONENTS own source. That aside, this was cited within the source from the government site, that I listed above. My opponent is trying to dis-credit the carbon dioxide information analysis center of the information on c02 effecting the climate change. His basis for this is extremely unwarranted, and he provides absolutely no bearing of proof to back this claim up! He is basically filling his entire round with Fluff and nonsense, and I hope the audience understands this when reading the debate. "Based on greenhouse theory the correlation should be higher, and as temperatures have no risen in the last decade shatter the correlation. Why? Simple. If CO2 was the driver of climate temperatures should have continued to rise, but they didn’t." Except for it did! Your sources were wrong, you know they were wrong, and admit to them being wrong! So that must mean the information I provided proving that C02 emissions effecting global warming strongly in the past 10 years must be accurate. See all the graphs above. "And your graph fails to refute the point that CO2 does not have a significant enough correlation too temperatures." Lol which one, pray, may I ask? Because I have shown 3-4 different graphs, statistics, and other outstanding information that proves that C02 DOES effect the climate. In fact you have too. Until you can dis-prove MY evidence with statistics, or graphs, mine holds the most priority at the moment. Next my opponent does some weird sketches on my graph. Again this is another attempt to manipulate the audience. He is saying that the graph DOESN'T show that C02 emissions effect the climate. If you look at the graph, you will see that as the C02 Emissions rise, so does the temperature. Especially within the last 20 years, that graph shows imminent temperature reports rising subsequently with the C02 emissions. "Every place I put a line is where correlation broke." Again, you are mis-understanding my goal in this debate. My goal is to prove that with the rise of C02 emissions, comes the rise of temperatures. Never once in the opening round did you say that I must prove that ONLY C02 emissions were a factor in global climate change. However, I HAVE proven that climate change does occur AS A RESULT of C02 emissions. That's it! That's all I needed to win this debate, as is CLEARLY defined by my opponent in R1! His continued pursuance of the opinion that C02 emissions do not effect the climate change very much, are blatantly going against his win condition for this debate. "My source contradicts me? You get your data from a government source, mine from the SEPP. And when you look at it, it does not contradict anything. It shows the correlation for CO2 is not adequate to prove the side you are arguing, and the data you presented does not prove a point." Yes your source MAJORLY contradicts you and your goal in this debate. And your wrong, as it actually shows a major correlation between temperature rises and C02. " I have shown the PDO correlation is twice as strong as a CO2 correlation. I also showed a sun correlation is 10 points stronger. I then showed that it is possible our current position in the galaxy and that relative to the sun via cosmic rays is a good theory, which trumps the evidence CO2 alarmists, have put forth. " Listen. I DO NOT CARE. I never once said in this ENTIRE debate, nor did I have to, that C02 emissions were the only cause of global warming. I have proven that C02 emissions DO harm the environment. That much you CANNOT dis-agree with. Your conduct in this debate is superfluously appalling. Again, however, I would probably attribute that to your age. " My opponent as pro has the BOP; this was established in round one. It was also established that round was for acceptance and if you posted your case would be irrelevant. You posted. It’s irrelevant. Therefore you have the BOP and have no case to prove the statement, therefore lose the debate." Is that all you care about, is winning a debate based on a technicality? Despite the fact that I have PROVEN that C02 emissions are a huge factor in global temperature rising? Dear audience, my opponent attempts to ignore logic and valid information and is hoping to steal a win on the debate because of it, though he excused this in the beginning of his last round. The evidence is still there, it's still valid, and I do not care if you choose to ignore it. I will leave that up to the audience to decide. CONCLUSION My opponent has shown extremely poor conduct throughout this entire debate, and I hope the audience sees this as clearly as I have. My opponent attempts to ignore the light of all the evidence I have provided. He completely contradicts his own sources, which actually just help me out. I recommend the audience go through and read his source and find all the contradicting evidence he has to offer. My opponent says I have not upheld the burden of proof. If anyone buys this I strongly suggest they re-read that in which I have offered. I remain, that the evidence in R1 is still valid, and in R2, and none of it should be discounted on a technicality. I really hope for my opponents mental health, that he educates himself further on such subjects before starting debates on them. With that said, I strongly urge the voters to vote PRO. Thankyou.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-Change-is-driven-by-human-CO2-emissions/1/
  • PRO

    In low-lying coastal settlements, for example, we could...

    Developed countries have a moral obligation to mitigate the effects of climate change.

    Thanks for the debate Idaho_Rebel. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the leading international body for the assessment of climate change, has stated that climate change has major environmental, social, political, and economic consequences. The issue at stake in this debate, whether developed countries have a moral obligation to mitigate the consequences of climate change, is thus quite necessary. Pro Case 1. What are the potential "effects" of climate change? Atmospheric CO2 concentrations will reach 400ppm by 2017, if not earlier, making a rise in average global temperatures inevitable. It has been predicted that urban "heat island" effects (the result of rising temperatures) will result in the death of tens of thousands of people across the world. Other predictions include: high-intensity storms and flooding, causing property and infrastructure damage; droughts threatening food and water supplies; wildfires, desertification, and soil erosion destroying agricultural land, raising food prices, and leading to large-scale migrations; and rising sea levels, devastating low-lying coastal settlements (including many major cities). Source: IPCC, 2011: IPCC Special Report on Renewable Energy Sources and Climate Change Mitigation - http://srren.ipcc-wg3.de... 2. Why do "developed countries" have a moral obligation to mitigate these effects? The potential harms caused by climate change should be readily apparent, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that there is some sort of obligation to mitigate the effects of climate change, regardless of which ethical precept is applied. For example, a utilitarian ethics (greatest good for the greatest number) is just as likely to recommend policies that mitigate the effects of climate change as a Kantian ethics (regarding the rightness of actions themselves). So then, the next question is: "who" carries the burden or moral obligation to curb the effects of climate change? The issue at stake here is one of responsibility: do particular governments have more responsibility than others? A reasonable principle to apply here would be the "common but differentiated responsibility" principle: the idea that everyone bears a responsibility to mitigate the effects of climate change, but those with the ability to pay have a greater burden to do so. We could apply other ethical principles, such as the idea of "intergenerational equity" (the debt to future generations) or "compensatory equity" (the debt to more socioeconomically vulnerable people). The conclusion of these principles suggests developed countries, who by definition are more advanced economically and technologically, have a greater burden to mitigate the effects of climate change than do currently developing countries. Con Case Re: "Contention 1" My opponent's argument, that the "economic impact of environmental legislation hurts the economies of developed countries," is flawed for two reasons. First, my opponent completely neglects the possibility of alternative mitigation proposals, some which might even have a positive effect on the economy. For example, the development of drought-resistant crops, storm-resistant housing, climate-resilient infrastructure, and secure food/water supplies could easily produce new jobs and stimulate economic growth. Indeed, there is no need to focus on CO2 emissions when other options exist. In low-lying coastal settlements, for example, we could build sea walls, which are not only cheaper but much more likely to protect than an energy tax. Second, my opponent's argument offers no reason to believe environmental legislation would hurt the economy. How would the EPA's national energy tax "kill jobs" and "stop economic growth"? How would it make "tilling a field" and "operating a feedlot" impossible? The only answer my opponent provides to these questions is "foreign competition." This fear is unfounded, however, because the EPA's regulations only apply to global industries (domestic industries would be unaffected since they all operate under the same restrictions). Moreover, since fossil fuels are already becoming more expensive relative to renewable sources, an energy tax would simply accelerate a transition to "green energy" that is already underway, including the retraining of carbon-intensive industries for "green jobs." The U.S. economy as a whole would remain competitive. Re: "Contention 2" The argument that humans are not responsible for climate change is irrelevant: assuming climate change is harmful to the well-being of humans, it would not matter who or what was responsible for the harm. The issue at stake in this debate is who is responsible for cleaning up the mess, not who is responsible for creating the mess. To clarify this point, consider Peter Singer's example of a child drowning in a shallow pond: do we have a moral obligation to rescue the child? Yes, we do. Now, suppose someone pushed the child into the shallow pond; does this fact suddenly absolve you of the moral obligation to rescue the child? No, it doesn't. The burden of mitigating the effects of climate change falls on humanity as a whole, with a greater burden placed on those who can better afford to pay for mitigation proposals. The issue of who is responsible for climate change is thus irrelevant. Re: "Contention 3" My opponent argues that "nations are not moral entities," so therefore the "idea that a country would have a 'moral obligation' is unethical on the basis of Ethical Relativism." The argument is not only entirely incoherent (how can something be objectively "unethical" on the basis of "Ethical Relativism"?), but its premises are flat-out wrong. The problem is that my opponent confuses descriptive ethics with normative ethics, taking the existence of different moral views (it is true that different individuals, cultures, and countries can have different moral doctrines) to establish the lack of a true morality that "nation-states ought to abide by." Just because a particular individual or nation believes their moral view is the right one does not make it right. A culture might practice slavery or cannibalism, but the fact they believe these practices ethical does not make itself make these practices ethical. If we employ an objective ethical framework, such as a utilitarian or deontological ethics which both make claims of universality and objectivity, then my opponent's argument is clearly misguided. But suppose we grant my opponent his claim of ethical relativism, that does not mean no ethical precept can be established. It simply means that, from our perspective, what is right is determined by what we believe. That does not mean what we believe is not a "standard ethical or moral policy." On the contrary, the whole point of ethical relativism is to establish that our morality is situated in our specific culture, and since our culture is one in which protecting the life and property of our citizens is of ethical importance, mitigating climate change is thus also important. The other point my opponent makes - that individuals, not nations, are moral entities - makes no sense. A country or government has the choice - rational free choice - to make decisions and affect the world, just like an individual. This simple fact makes a country a "moral entity," in the sense that my opponent uses the term. The distinction between individual and country does not hold up, because countries are simply the association of individuals for a specific purpose under a particular name. This allows countries to function in the same way as individuals, making them moral entities.

  • PRO

    The climate has not changed and if it did it wasn't...

    Climate change and global warming are both total nonsense and drivel concepts.

    The climate has not changed and if it did it wasn't caused by human activity. The people who first started the climate change nonsense were all communist dictators and criminals.

  • PRO

    When I stated that GW is caused in a significant manner...

    Climate change

    As I have previously stated it is important for the relevance and quality of the debate that only the argument presented are analyzed. Referring to "Co2 theorists" or "deniers" only muddles the debate and brings irrelevant arguments to the debate. I refrained from bringing into the discussion questionable arguments or false evidence produced by "deniers". Had this debate been:"I believe that CO2 advocates are right" or "Deniers are wrong" rather than "GW is human-induced in a significant way" than Con's reference to Co2 advocates statements would have made sense. I have already stated that I will not get dragged into a discussion about advocates and deniers. I am only interested in Con's arguments and he should only be interested in mine. I also salute the fact that Con engaged in tackling the methods for proving false the human induced GW. In my previous speech I pointed out that there was consensus among scientists and that it is more probable that the scientists saying GW is human induced are right. Con had 2 attacks: there is not a large consensus and the consensus is not meaningful. Con first tried to prove that consensus is not meaningful and than that there is actually no consensus. This means that Con abandons his first contention that consensus doesn't mean anything. I will now prove that Con's argument further strengthens my position. First of all, Con only managed to prove marginal misconduct in the IPCC and not in other independent studies while I managed to link all of Con's sources to financers that have a vested interest in the outcome of this debate. When evaluating proof, one test is the vested interest in the outcome of the debate [1]. Con conceded in his second speech that GW scientists have no vested interest. Furthermore I have proven a clear and foul initiative form the part of oil industry to deny climate change. Con did not answer to the allegations and proof I provided with this respect. What is more, if there are some scientists that can speak out for themselves and deny the "official position" it is highly improbable that the others will be dominated by the "bureaucrats" at the IPCC. Con did not provide any evidence of the interference of the IPCC interference in the research of GW scientist. Con also attacked all of my sources in block, without mentioning what source is not credible. To Con the Wikipedia articles are more biased than oil financed or oil directed science. This is highly improbable. With respect to the consensus argument Con first conceded that consensus is meaningful and I have proven that it is more probable that the human induced GW theory is not affected by vested interests or by interfering from outside sources. Con decided to address the "significant" term of this topic. I must point out that it was not until the third round that Con addressed the "significant" definition. Until this round Con chose to replace my statements with those of "advocates". When I stated that GW is caused in a significant manner by humans I have also provided the means to evaluate if this change is important. Con addressed some of them in the second round and attacked the idea of important enough to take action now. Con argument is nevertheless flawed as he proves that previous action was insufficient not that action must not be taken. Furthermore, Con decides to attack a specific course of action (cap and trade) when there are other means of combating Co2 emissions (i.e. taxes). While in this attempt EU failed to reduce emissions the basic idea should work as it has done in US when trying to curb So2 emissions. So if Con agrees to use this criterion too I should win this debate. We had previously agreed that there is global warming. Con stated that temperatures have been stable for the past decade. I have proven this wrong and Con did not respond to this statement and the proof presented. In studying the past Co2 records Con pointed out that there can be no correlation between Co2 and global temperatures. I have shown that at the end of the period temperatures decreased and also Co2 levels decreased. The graph and phenomena presented by the article also point out a clear trend in the output and replacement of Co2. This imbalance of absorbed and emitted Co2 and also the positive feedback effect were never accounted for by Cons arguments. Even if at the scale of 600 million years there seems everything is ok, at the scale of 600 000 years Co2 has risen and h In the discussion about Venus and the Moon the basic idea was to observe simpler systems to determine the effects of Co2 in the absence of other factors that may complicate the analysis and hence the debate. I have provided evidence that shows that Venus is hotter than Mercury which is closer to the Sun. Con only attacked the relevance of my source. In this case I will quote sources [2] [3]. Also, I have shown that the Moon which is at basically the same distance from the Sun as Earth is on average much colder. The Moon doesn't have any Periodic Oceanic movement to explain this characteristic. According to the principle tertium non datur the only thing left is the lack of greenhouse effect. Per a contrario on planets with atmosphere (i.e. Earth) this effect can be shown to be significant. We have both agreed to compare Venus to Earth. Nevertheless Con provided proof that states that we must not compare Earth and Venus due to major differences. According to common procedures what has been agreed in a case by the parties is considered truth for the purpose of that case. I must further point out that the evidence presented doesn't explain why we must not compare Venus and Earth. It simply points out that the pressure on Venus is greater than that on Earth but it further analyzes Co2 effects based upon the quantity. The document presented also says that we can only project Co2 evolution by not taking into account the projected evolution of population since this is not science but sociology. This elementary wrong as we must try to improve our models by using all the available data (humans produce co2 – this is no rocket science). The article also concedes that even using it's optimistic projections Co2 will increase temperatures by 1.85 C. When analyzing Venus, Con calculated a + 150 C greenhouse effect. I have shown that the calculation is wrong since Con used the presumption that there is no greenhouse effect on Earth to complete his calculations. The actual temperature that should have been used in the calculations should have been 255 K for Earth with no greenhouse effect. The graph presented is just that: a graph of a logarithmic function. It is for illustrative purposes only. It shows what math already that the derivative of ln(x) is 1/x. The derivative shows the speed by which a continuous function "grows". 1/x has large values at the beginning and smaller as x increases. This means that the initial increases in Co2 have a larger effect than subsequent increases of Co2. Me, Con and the article agree on this point. However, neither Con's model, nor the one in the document explain the high temperatures on Venus. If for every 2 degrees we need to double the amount of Co2 in the atmosphere then for +150 C we would need a 2^75 increase (more than the amount on Venus) in Co2 to cause such an increase. This contradicts all the observed data of both Venus and Earth. It is more likely that the initial quantities of Co2 account for most of the effect and that most of the subsequent quantities cause smaller increases. Therefore most of the heating happens at the beginning. This heating is significant. I have used the same inverse method as the one used in the article presented by Con. It is both the Sun and Co2. The motion stands. [1] Preparing for legislative debate; Linda L. Oddo, Thomas B. McClain; P. 30 [2] http://hypertextbook.com... [3] http://www.universetoday.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-change/1/

CON

  • CON

    Most third world countries like Somalia, Maldives,...

    Developed countries have to support developing countries in the fight for climate change.

    Hello, I'm glad to meet you. I hope this debate goes well. I represent those who are against this motion. First, why should developed countries NOT have the obligation to help these under-developed countries in the first place? The world itself is fighting climate change and every country has contributed to climate change at one point or another and it's every country's obligation to help prevent since it is affecting everyone. Most third world countries like Somalia, Maldives, Bangladesh, etc. fought tooth and nail with the help of other countries and the UN and there is not a lot of progress and they end up depending on other countries. Second, why do undeveloped countries need or depend on the help of developed countries and the UN? It is because of their economic vulnerability. Climate change will hit underdeveloped countries the most because of their economic vulnerability. And this is what makes these countries dependant on foreign aid since they can't afford it themselves which leads to lack of funding on better alternatives and better technology. Third, why can't developed countries help these under-developed countries when they themselves are in a better position? It is because more developed have bigger problems to deal with. Take a look at the US, they are considerably developed and have far more better technology to help their It is because of their economic vulnerability. Climate change will hit underdeveloped countries the most because of their economic vulnerability. And this is what makes these countries dependant on foreign aid since they can't afford it themselves which leads to lack of funding on better alternatives and better technology. Third, why can't developed countries help these under-developed countries when they themselves are in a better position? It is because more developed have bigger problems to deal with. Take a look at the US, they are considerably developed and have far more better technology to help their climate change crisis. Then why don't help on a bigger scale? It's like what I said, the more developed you are, the more likely your problems are bigger. This is what I currently have on my mind as I write this. I hope you can debate with me. Cheers.

  • CON

    For the purpose of this debate I propose the following...

    Resolved: Developed countries have a moral obligation to mitigate the effects of climate change.

    For the purpose of this debate I propose the following definitions. Developed countries is a term used to identify the wealthiest nations in the world, which include Western Europe, the United States, Canada, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand. (ww Norton & co. economics textbook) Moral obligation is a duty arising out of considerations of right and wrong (Princeton University) For our framework, we will be using utilitarianism, which is that actions should be directed toward promoting the greatest happiness of the greatest number of persons. Specifically, according to utilitarian philosphers Peter Singer and Henry Sidgwick, "there are moral assertions that we recognise intuitively as true... suffering is intrinsically bad, and... people's preferences should be satisfied." To the topic, this means that mitigting the effects of climate change is neccessary for providing the greatest happiness to the most people. Contention 1: Developed countries are largely responsible for climate change It is common truth that industrialized nations bear more responsibility for human-induced climate change. This is because over the years, dating back to the Industrial revolution, humans have been producing greenhouse gases that have influenced Earth's atmosphere. As such it would be unfair to ask developing countries to act similarly as developed countries. "When the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change was formulated ... the principle of common but differentiated responsibilities was acknowledged. ... [T]his principle recognized that "The largest share of historical and current global emissions of greenhouse gases has originated in developed countries; "Per capita emissions in developing countries are still relatively low; "The share of global emissions originating in developing countries will grow to meet their social and development needs."(The United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change) As a result, Today's developed nations are responsible for global warming and the effects of which we see today. And it is unfair to expect undeveloped world to make the same emissions reductions. Contention 2: Developed countries are the only ones with the capabilities to act on climate change No only do developed nation have the most to cut per capita, but they are also the only ones that have the technological advancements and resources to combat climate change. As such they have an obligation to use these resources to fix their planet. More importantly, the developed countries have the research capabilities to create the technology to make a green self-sustaining economy. For example, Italy for the first time has been able to utilize solar power to produce more electricity than wind power, thus accounting for nearly 3.2% of their total energy needs. In addition, by being at the forefront of this technology, Italy, a country constantly on the brink of economic disaster, has been able to become more stabilized and focus its energy on expanding its renewable energy market.(renewable energy world) Further, the developed world has the finance and expertise to develop these projects and implement and manage them all around the world. As the nations with the greatest capability, the developed world has the increased responsibility to act for the betterment of all. Contention 3: The greatest impact will come when the largest emitters of greenhouse gases make reductions. Developed countries emit the most greenhouse gases per capita, in 2008 the US emitted 17.9 tonnes compared to China's 5.3 tons per person. If reductions are made in such nations, then we will see a much bigger impact in the climate than if it came from developing nations. In addition, the developed countries with high CO2 emissions can reduce output through lifestyle changes. For example, biking to work instead of taking the car or cutting back on the junk food now and then. For developing nations, changes like that can not be made. They would have to change their entire economy and route to development to meat such needs even though they don't produce all that much in the first place. In the future, these developing nations will look to the actions of the developed world to plan for their future. By combating climate change, we ensure that everyone will eventually reach a point in which we can eliminate emissions all together. In Conclusion Global warming is an outcome of human activities rather than a natural disaster. Without maximum action from the developed world, all countries will be ultimately affected, including the rich countries.

  • CON

    Opening Statement: First I would like to refer to to the...

    Factory Farming is the #1 cause of man-made global climate change

    Kind regards for this debate. I will be representing the Con side, meaning that I will be debating that Factory Farming is not the number 1 cause of man made climate change. First I would like to define 'factory farming', being defined as "a system of rearing livestock using highly intensive methods, by which poultry, pigs, or cattle are confined indoors under strictly controlled conditions." 'Man made' implies that "made or caused by human beings (as opposed to occurring or being made naturally)." This means that the burning of fossil fuels, while it could occur naturally, occurs 'man made' as the method by which fossil fuels are creating climate change and are by all means man made, as to say that a majority of emissions would not occur, was it not for the human action of burning fossil fuels, thus implying a man made action and resulting in man made climate change. Opening Statement: First I would like to refer to to the World Resources Institute's data (http://www.wri.org...) showing that the US is one of the highest contributors to emissions. That being said, I will provide the following graph easily showing the little impact farming, not to mention this includes all practices of farming, not just 'factory farming', has on the overall emissions. This graph is provided by the United States Environmental Protection Agency. (http://www3.epa.gov...) Easy to see, Agriculture has a minimal input of 9% on Greenhouse Gas emissions. Furthermore it is to mention, that according to the source used above, methane, the gas produced by animals, may make up an estimated 30% of emmissions in the Agricultural sector, however, thus only around 3% overall. And this is not even factory farming, just animals in total. Conclusion: As provided by statistics above, Agriculture itself is not even a major contribution to Greenhouse gas emissions, meaning that factory farming, which is an even smaller contributor, is not the number one cause of man made global climate change. Kind Regards, I am looking forward to your arguments.

  • CON

    China is worst contributor to climate change; has equal...

    Developed countries have a higher obligation to combat climate change

    China is worst contributor to climate change; has equal obligations

  • CON

    Large developing nations are wealthy enough to lead on...

    Developed countries have a higher obligation to combat climate change

    Large developing nations are wealthy enough to lead on climate change.

  • CON

    Blame game" distracts from solving global climate change

    Developed countries have a higher obligation to combat climate change

    "Blame game" distracts from solving global climate change

  • CON

    First world countries do not have the moral obligation to...

    First World countries have the moral obligation to mitigate the effects of climate change

    First world countries do not have the moral obligation to mitigate the effects of climate change.

  • CON

    Taking action against climate change includes economic...

    Governments need to take radical action to combat climate change

    Taking action against climate change includes economic regulation.

  • CON

    Thomas B. Reed Definitions: "Developed countries:...

    Developed countries have a moral obligation to mitigate the effects of climate change.

    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."-Thomas B. Reed Definitions: "Developed countries: sovereign state which has a highly developed economy and advanced technological infrastructure relative to other less developed nations "Moral obligation: an obligation arising out of considerations of right and wrong "Mitigate: to lessen in force or intensity, as wrath, grief, harshness, or pain; moderate "Effects: a change that is the result or consequence of an action or other cause "Climate change: is a significant and lasting change in the statistical distribution of weather patterns over periods ranging from decades to millions of years. Contention 1: The economic impact of environmental legislation hurts the economies of developed countries. New regulations planned by the EPA could have detrimental effects to our economy " particularly causing a loss of jobs, impeding economic recovery and harming livelihoods. The heart of the EPA"s regulation would be a backdoor national energy tax that will ultimately kill jobs, stop economic growth and raise the cost of energy, food and transportation. They would also double the current regulatory standard on farm dust that would make tilling a field, operating a feedlot or diving farm vehicles impossible - bringing the agriculture sector to a standstill. A representative from the Virginia Farm Bureau Federation said, "Farmers and their way of life and livelihood have never felt more challenged or threatened than they do today by the continuous onslaught of regulations and requirements from the Environmental Protection Agency... The cost they represent will impact the economy as a whole, and this committee should not be surprised when our economy contracts and jobs are lost to foreign competition." An MIT study conducted by Stephen M. Meyers clearly shows that increased environmental regulation burdens the economy, especially in times of economic downfall. So why then, would we want any more ridiculous red tape? An increase in environmental regulation would result in the loss of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars, nobody wants to see that. Contention 2: The Earth"s climate is always changing. If you talk to any credible climatologist, they will tell you the Earth's temperature has been much hotter and colder than it is now. Anyone saying that we should reverse the effects of climate change are obviously misinformed and have no scientific background. The climate is always in a state of constant change and development. The Earth goes through natural periods of cooling and warming, that"s scientific fact. Would you blame the warming of the Earth after the last Ice Age on humans or man-made greenhouse gases? As with all the climate change nonsense, not a single claim can be substantiated as actual physical proof. Only assumptions and predictions made with manipulated computer models and deliberately corrupted data exist. Actual meteorological records and geophysical records destroy any credibility of everything ever said by these environmental groups. The real agenda of "global warming" has nothing to do with climate or weather but all to do with politics and the financial gain of those who stand to benefit from green investments. What better an investment could they have than one where the government forces the use of a green scheme idea or product on the public? In a 1996 report by the UN on global warming, two statements were deleted from the final draft. Here they are: 1) "None of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that we can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in greenhouse gases." 2) "No study to date has positively attributed all or part of the climate change to man"made causes. Contention 3: There is no moral obligation to mitigate climate change because nations are not moral entities. On what grounds are so-called "developed countries" morally obligated to do anything? The simple fact is that there is no basis for this claim. Individuals, rather than government, determine morals. Government is not, and never has been where you should look for morals; you have that in your own heart and conscience; you teach that to your family. You cannot dictate what morals your neighbor has nor what morals your neighbor teaches his children. Make yourself an example with morals; that is all one can do. And certainly government has no place in that. The whole idea that a country would have a "moral obligation" is unethical on the basis of Ethical Relativism, that ethics and morals are relative to each Nation or even culture and that there is no standard ethical or moral policy that all nation-states ought to abide by.

  • CON

    Another 2004 study found, when you averaged the whole...

    Taking a Stand Against Climate Change with Greener Technologies

    My opponent has argued that the moderate to poor correlation of CO2 is enough to be considered major, however this is illogical. First, I never said CO2 had no effect, I argued it was not the main cause. Second, it is unlikely increasing CO2 has a large impact because CO2 increases are logarithmic, in other words the more CO2 there is the less warming effect each unit has. If we double the amount of CO2 from pre-industrial levels (we have gone through 30-50% increase) then warming per I increase would be extremely small. A 20 ppm increase of CO2 would be much less then 0.2 degrees Celsius [1]. Second, the climate is not very sensitive; a better way to put it would be an increase in CO2 would have little effect. The evidence claiming climate to be sensitive are very flawed, they ignore climate feedbacks and other factors relating to sensitivity. If CO2 were to double, only a 1 degree increase would occur, we have not doubled CO2 levels from the pre-industrial era and have warmed less then one degree Celsius. With current emissions it is unlikely we could argue CO2 is the main driver of climate change, when sensitivity is taken into account [2]. Second, my opponents rebuttal to the PDO and AMO argues the correlation is due to the seas space, however he ignores the fact the PDO and AMO go into cooling cycles and the correlation I cited showed when they cooled, the earth cooled, and in a warming phase the land warmed. Dr. Roy Spencer has argued the PDO may cause three quarters of the current warming due to its effects on clouds (therefore our albedo) winds, and obviously tropical winds. And it heats the pacific, obviously warming the earth in that way too. Spencer has argued, "mankind"s CO2 emissions are not strong enough to have caused the global warming we"ve seen over the last 100 years." And that "Here I present new evidence that most of the warming could be the result of a natural cycle in cloud cover forced by a well-known mode of natural climate variability: the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO). While the PDO is primarily a geographic rearrangement in atmospheric and oceanic circulation patterns in the North Pacific, it is well known that such regional changes can also influence weather patterns over much larger areas, for instance North America or the entire Northern Hemisphere (which is, by the way, the region over which the vast majority of global warming has occurred).[emphasis added]"[3] For my opponents argument to work, he would need to prove the PDO and other currents would only affect the regional areas (as he argued with his map). However, the cloud cover changes caused by the PDO would change the earths albedo and cause warming for the entire northern hemisphere, and as he noted that"s where the warming is primarily occurring. 1. Global warming is real and is a threat My opponent has argued this warming is unusually fast, which is interesting, as I have argued above that warming has stopped in recent years. With the stop of warming in recent years, it is odd to argue it is rising unusually fast. Models have overestimated the effect of CO2, claiming over the last 15-20 years the warming should have increased"a lot"however the warming has stopped [4]. The earth has actually been significantly warmer throughout its time period, when comparing us to other time periods in geologic history we are in an ice age. According to the 1995 IPCC report, our warming as been extremely insignificant and fairly normal. Climate geologists, generally, oppose climate alarmism. Many of the most well known geologists have argued the current warming is "right on schedule". Nothing about our warming is odd, different, or one of a kind [5]. The sea level raises my opponent points too are exaggerated. There is vast evidence that sea level rise is meager to nonexistent. A 2003 study finds sea level rise has only been about .5 mm a year, half of what my opponent has argued. A 2004 study finds before 1940, sea level rise was about 1mm per year"my opponent"s number"but finds there has been no sea level increase (overall) after that date. Another 2004 study found, when you averaged the whole 20th century, we get 1.8mm rise per year, but when you break it into chunks (1950-2000) no sea level rose in that time period. And yet another 2004 study finds that the sea level increase is overall uncertain. They note in their study they believe sea level has risen 2 mm per year, however they failed to control for regional variability. They said their study answers many questions and creates many more, and conclude one cannot conclude anything. A 2005 study finds no increase in sea levels since 1950. And the list continues, the evidence that sea level rise is meager is growing [6]. My opponent has admitted no increase of hurricanes was argued. In other words, even if intensity increases but the number falls, we are left with a wash. However, even the intensity argument fails. Pro argues my data is incomplete"focusing on landfall hurricanes"although that"s what really matters (or at least matters more) then sea hurricanes, his argument still falls when I extend the data set. So let me again note: the number of hurricanes overall has fallen, and my opponent overall drops that point. Many studies project a 5% increase in hurricane intensity, however a 2005 study (although concluding higher intensity) says that number is twice as high as it should be. Other studies have found intensity to be the same or actually decrease. The 2005 study agreeing with my opponent, in a way, argues reducing CO2 emissions (which would occur by using green energy as the resolution states) would not change Hurricane intensity. A 2006 study finds there is no correlation between global warming and wind speeds in Hurricanes. A second 2006 study replicates the results, arguing there is no current correlation between Hurricane intensity and warming. Multiple 2007 and 2008 studies replicate these findings, arguing "if there is an increase in hurricane activity connected to a greenhouse gas induced global warming, it is currently obscured" (Chylek, P. and Lesins 2008) and that "no evidence that the distributional mean of individual storm intensity, measured by storm days, track length, or individual storm power dissipation index, has changed (increased or decreased) through time." (Briggs 2008) [7]. The evidence is pretty compelling: no Hurricane intensity changes have occurred. Remember: this is using non-landfall data too (making my opponents objection refuted). And there is some evidence that global warming reduces the total number of hurricanes meaning an overall decrease of extreme weather occurs. My opponent plays semantics. In this debate climate change, as implied in round one, is global warming. The dust bowl, as I argued, was caused by farming and not a warming earth. Therefore, his objection is irrelevant. A drought in the 16th century has been deemed a mega drought by a 2000 study. It was the largest drought in human history, before humans could have caused it. Droughts within the last 1000 years are much more severe then now, and a 1998 study noted there was a decrease of droughts in the 20th century. Warming has no correlation with droughts, however overall sun intensity (which, sometimes, means warming may correlate with droughts) and regional warming from the suns rays caused droughts, not human processes [8]. Hunnington (2006) has pointed out rainfall globally has been increasing. Many studies have concluded rainfall will increase because of global warming; plant growth will increase, decreasing the possibility of a drought [9]. 2. Caused by humans My opponent uses flawed data, my data was 60 million years ago, and my opponent has used data from the creations, 5-6 million years before. As CO2 naturally fluctuates with climate change"climate change often causes more CO2"it would not be unheard of for the ppm levels to be close too, or far from, other dates. My opponent also falsely correlated CO2 with temperature; by arguing it cannot be that close, the Cambrian was warmer. As stated, the historical correlation between CO2 and temperature is nonexistent, with CO2 lagging temperature or not correlating at all. The CO2 was 2000-3000 ppm 60 mya, by measuring oxygen isotopes. This data is impeccable, and my opponents Cambrian objection makes little sense, its not odd that CO2 was not much lower at this time period, as CO2 and temperature historically don"t correlate well his Cambrian objection is a weak one [10]. My opponent really doesn"t refute my lagging argument, only posts links. Those links only talk about modern temperature trends, meaning source seven stands. And when looking at data millions of years ago, it won"t matter if the study was published in 1999 or 2012. But if date is what he wants, recent papers back my findings too [11]. 3. Fixing the problem The resolution is in present tense, so saying "it will get better later" is against the wording of the resolution. However, lets refute the "future" argument. It is impossible to replace fossil fuels with green energy, New York would need 60 square miles of wind turbines and the wind to be blowing 100% of the time to power the city. Wind power has always been more expensive then fossil fuels, and new research has still failed to fix that problem. Bio fuels and other sources are quite inefficient and waste other resources in the process. Current renewable are a joke, and billions (if not trillions) of dollars are needed to make them competitive, which is not worth the cost, especially as I argued warming may help humans and more CO2 = more plants. Green energy is not a logical solution [12]. If the Kyto agreement would not stop warming, and is only a first step, converting to green energy would likely have no effect [5]. Further, photovoltaic"s are inefficient, and uncompetitive [6]. 4. Extinctions First, CO2 is not a pollutant, meaning his position is illogical here. Second, mass extinctions are not occurring. A 2009 study notes, ""after five years, a re-visitation of the summit areas revealed a considerable increase of species richness at the upper alpine and subnival zone (10% and 9%, respectively) and relatively modest increases at the lower alpine zone and the treeline ecotone (3% and 1%, respectively)." In addition, with respect to threats of extinction, they reported that "during the last five years, the endemic species of the research area were hardly affected," while "at the highest summit, one endemic species was even among the newcomers."[14] As we can see, animals are not being affected by warming. CONCLUSION: Global warming is (1) exaggerated, (2) not man made, (3) fixing it is impossible, and would not help anyone, and (4) extinctions are a widely popularized myth that has been refuted. http://www.debate.org...