• CON

    I don't know about you, but I'd much rather live in...

    On balance modern Feminism is beneficial to the modern United States.

    My apologies on the format, something happened to the site so I pasted from Microsoft Word... At least it still exists. I appreciate the kind words, Kasmic, and same goes to you. I like the way you debate and stay away from personal insults. I completely agree - ad hominem attacks are useless. Thanks for your opening arguments, I'll see if I have enough room to bring up my own after addressing yours. Economic Injustice So I found a census .pdf that explains the lack of "representation" for females in STEM occupations, however absolutely nothing regarding pay [1]. A lack of female dominance or "equal" employment of men and women has (most likely) nothing to do with an employer's discrimination, bias, sexism, etc. And I'd say (this makes sense) a lack of female representation is due to more males choosing to enter this field of work than females, as females tend to enter more "family" oriented positions, like child care, front of house type stuff, where they are pretty much guaranteed to keep this position. I also, for the life of me, could not find any statistics showing pay between men and women based on same job, same work experience, same age, and same education. I did however find a census .pdf that showed there is a 23% difference between men and women for the most part, but this has nothing to do with specific jobs [2]. When an employer pays a colleague more than another, what's the first thing that comes to mind? "He/she must be better at this job"? "He/she must have more experience"? "The boss must see more potential in this individual"? Either way you look at it, this reasoning makes sense, right? ...So why is it when as soon as a man gets paid more than a woman, everyone blames sexism and says there's no possible way a male can be paid more than a female other than blatant sexism? Why are work ethics, performance, willingness to advance in the company (or not), not taken into perspective when there is a difference in pay between males and females? Would it be possible women just generally don't excel as much as men do in jobs such as engineering or mathematics or technology, and excel more in jobs geared toward "natural female" jobs, such as child care, or jobs that require a personable personality? I found a "top 10" on Discovery.com related to 10 gender differences between men and women [3]. Most are whatever, but one really stood out, and that is that, according to research and studies, Men handle lack of sleep better than women do. This may sound like nothing, but in the long run, would you prefer someone (notice I didn't specify gender) who can work longer without getting burnt out? If you were an employer, you would - and that makes sense, and doesn't have anything to do with discriminating against a gender. According to KFF, approximately 20% of women live in poverty, whereas 18% of men do [4]. This 2% difference most likely has nothing to do with discrimination, and to say one group of people statistically have "worse" lives means there is discrimination or sexism or racism or whatever against that group would be ridiculous. On average, women don't have as well paying jobs or as well "respected" jobs as men? I can agree with that. However you would need to prove that this is directly related to blatant sexism, discrimination, etc against women. Did you forget upwards of 70% of the homeless population is male [5]? I don't know about you, but I'd much rather live in poverty and have a minimum wage job with no benefits than have no house or job and live on the streets. We could even argue that women have it better then men when it comes to "true" poverty. To conclude that because women have less paying jobs (even though men have a higher unemployment rate than women [6]), and a lower representation in higher paying jobs is a direct repercussion of discrimination or sexism is... well, unrealistic. Domestic Violence Although statistics show more women are victims of domestic violence than men, that difference isn't very large at all, as about 40% of domestic violence victims are male [7]. One difference between a guy hitting a girl and a girl hitting a guy is when a girl hits a guy, people laugh. People don't take it seriously. People brush it off and figure he can defend himself. And to be clear, yes, they do laugh, as you can see in this social experiment on YouTube [8]. People LAUGH when a girl is physically assaulting a guy. Men are known to be physically stronger than women, and have a more physically aggressive mentality, which is most likely the main reason more men assault women than the other way around, but hey, this has nothing to do with sexism. It's genetics. It's biology. It sucks, any crime sucks, but it is completely irrational and unrealistic to conclude that there is a relationship between male on female domestic violence and sexism/superiority. One in six men under the age of 18 have been physically sexually abused [9]. I know the following is a statistic from way up in Canada, but Canada and America aren't very different when you think about it; Men are physically assaulted a lot more than women - over three times more men are victims of aggravated assault than women [10]. This is regarding domestic violence however, and although it is clear women very well could be assaulted in a domestic relationship/environment more than men are, you have not shown how feminism can help, and you have not proved that this is even a case of sexism or a superiority complex or anything of that sort. Statistics are great, however you have not provided a correlation between domestic abuse and sexism. And if feminism is not solely a "sexism/equal rights" movement, then why doesn't feminism focus on all types of abuse instead of ones that favor/victimize women more than men? How feminism can help I completely agree 100% that feminism was needed at a time, and did help drastically with women's rights and safety, and it was completely necessary in the 20th century. However modern feminism is truly pushing it. I have been called a rapist by feminists (it doesn't matter if "true" feminists don't consider these women "true" feminists, what matters is "true" feminists still associate with these "fake" feminists, or "feminazis," by sharing the same name), because I've had sex with women who have had alcohol (while I have also consumed alcohol). I have been called a supporter of rape because I consider it wise to avoid dark alleys by yourself, wise to not dress extremely provocatively, or stumble around alone while under the influence of drugs/alcohol. The term rape culture is basically asking for women to have more rights than men; If a woman claims she was raped - she was. If a woman points at a man for rape - he did. If a woman is asked any normal questions carried out in crime investigations - these people are supporters of rape. Women (feminists) are asking for special treatment and more rights than men. When is it not appropriate for someone to ask what a man was wearing when he was assaulted? Maybe he was walking down the wrong neighbourhood dressed all in red, and he was assaulted by Crips. Maybe the way he was walking could be taken as an intimidation tactic. Maybe his expensive clothing could be taken as bragging about his money from selling drugs. Asking a victim of any crime facts has nothing to do with supporting their misfortune. It is simple criminal procedures. Also, you'd rather teach men not to rape than women to try and avoid sick animals who actually do rape? Why not teach people not to murder, steal, harass, extort, or commit any other illegal or hurtful activity? Because you can't. Some people's brains develop much differently than others, which ends up leading some people to harm others, either physically or mentally, or both. Feminism denies this, and thinks that it would make more sense to tell these people not to commit crimes than tell people to attempt to avoid these types of people who we really can't do a hell of a lot about. Prisons exist. The death penalty is still in use in some places. I'm sure knowing you'll rot in prison for dozens of years if not your entire life if you rape a girl is a better deterrent than feminists making blogs and ranting on tumblr (trying not to sound like a jerk, sorry if it comes off that way, I'm passionate about this subject). Here's an article about rape culture [10], which does have some legitimate points, but also contains ridiculous things such as, (I'm paraphrasing) "you support rape if you like the song 'blurred lines.' " My arguments have been dismissed by feminists because I am a man, and do not know what it's like to be a woman. It is clear feminism focuses more on women's issues than true equality. It also victimizes women to a new extreme. You were raped if you consumed any alcohol. You were raped if you did not give a definitive “yes.” You were sexually harassed if a guy looked at you in a way you didn’t like. And much more. My main problem with feminism is it A. Victimizes wR2;oR2;mR2;eR2;nR2; everyone. B. Separates the sexes. C. Breeds plenty extremists and holds a lot of inconsiderate, disrespectful, misandrist bigots. D. Categorizes men as rapists or supporters of rape, even if they aren't, through terms such as rape culture. Thanks, I'm looking forward to a great next round, and I hope you can address most, if not all, of my points. [1] http://www.census.gov... [2] http://www.census.gov... [3] http://news.discovery.com... [4] http://kff.org... [5] http://www.nationalhomeless.org... [6] http://www.bls.gov... [7] http://www.theguardian.com... [8] (See two videos) http://www.youtube.com... http://www.youtube.com... [9] https://1in6.org... [10] http://everydayfeminism.com...