• CON

    I'm sure everyone knows America has never had a female...

    Feminism! Hooray!

    Thanks, Cartidge. Glad I got your neurons firing. I understand the main goal of feminism is simply to gain equal rights. I agree with the goal, I disagree with the actions feminists take to "achieve" this goal. "Achieve" in quotations due to the fact that we do have equal rights and we do have equal opportunities and we are treated equally. I have a couple examples of feminists (unknowingly) asking for more rights than men - Rape culture According to the site I got this picture from [1], "...or make it seem like rape is an everyday occurrence that cannot be avoided," is said, which implies rape can be avoided. So either feminists can't make up their mind, or they can't accept the fact that they can avoid rape - by dressing differently, acting differently, and overall ensuring the situation they're in is a safe one. Unfortunately for common sense's sake, most feminists tend not to understand that bad things happen, and a big part of avoiding those bad things is... well, avoiding them. Facebook pages [2], blogs [3], and other media outlets seem to think that teaching men not to rape makes more sense than teaching people in general to try and keep themselves safe. Considering this is only brought up with rape against women, and zero other forms of crime, this is a prime example of women/feminists asking for special privilege over men, even if they apparently don't realize it. Victim blaming This falls into the same category as rape culture, it is implied that if we follow through with standard criminal investigative procedures, we are essentially blaming the victim for the crime committed against them [4]. Now this is simply not true. I'll share a brief story with you while we're on the topic of victim blaming - I was challenged a few times in high school, and when I was in grade 11, I was mugged by a couple guys. I filed a police report and the cops came to my house to ask questions and if I could identify the guys, etc. They also asked what I was wearing. So you know what I did? I told them what I was wearing. And you know what they did? They told me the gangs that were affiliated with the colours and brands of clothing I liked to wear. Christian Audigier and Dussault were big "gang colours" where I'm from, and the cops suggested I not wear clothes like that. So I stopped wearing clothes like that, and whattaya know, nobody even challenged me for the rest of my time in high school. So what did I take from that? I sure didn't say "they blamed me, let's start a tumblr group against victim-blaming mugging-culture police officers." This whole idea of "victim blaming" is also essentially trying to grant women more rights than men. It's implying women should not be questioned and women should not have to be careful in life because men should be taught to behave. Fun fact: (almost) everyone is taught the difference between right and wrong from a very young age. Some men and some women (yes, women can be bad too) have mental issues or are just not taught properly how to interact with society, so they do bad things. Avoiding those people is kind of smart, wouldn't you say? Affirmative Action Now I'm against affirmative action to begin with. Giving someone a position over another more qualified person simply because they represent a minority is not beneficial to businesses or society or the economy. One major area feminists ask for "special treatment" (getting positions simply for being female) is political [5]. I'm sure everyone knows America has never had a female president and only about a quarter of office is female. Now it gets kind of tricky here, because I do believe there should be equal representation for every group of people in office to an extent, however when it comes to blatantly saying "more women need to be in office," that is asking for special rights or privileges. If men are elected over women, it's because they're more qualified than the women and the general public feels so. If a man is elected over a man, nobody bats an eye, but when a man is elected over a woman, all of a sudden it's sexism and discrimination. We can't elect female government officials simply because they "don't make up an equal portion to men." And just an FYI - women don't run for office nearly as much as men [6], so why should MORE women be elected if they don't run as much? Peer Pressure This will be short as there isn't a lot to say here, but this mostly deals with feminists complaining that women don't make up "equal amounts of job positions," while they give reasons as to why they themselves don't want to join that career path. Anita Sarkeesian (hooray) is a very popular feminist icon, mostly in regards to video games. She made a twitter post a while ago [7] saying game developers anger her because they consider it "too much work/time/money" to create female game characters (even though there are hundreds that can be named in very popular games throughout the decades), while she herself isn't doing a thing about it other than complaining. So in a nutshell, feminism also affects other women, as feminists complain that there aren't enough women in fields, such as game development, while they aren't doing anything to "lessen the gender gap" in these industries. Same goes for politics. "Objectification" I don't think you've really shown how this is necessarily a bad thing. Humans are attracted to each other. Men like women, women like men. Sex sells. Also, this is not objectification. Objectification implies the person is treated as less than human and is only looked at for their body. To be considered attractive does not make them less than human. I am not attracted to a lamp. I am not attracted to a table. I am attracted to a human. If that human is being attractive to get what they want, or to sell something, that's their choice - for feminism to say they should stop what they're doing because they consider it "wrong" is wrong in itself. Sex is not a bad thing. Feminism acts as if it is. ....Which is detrimental to basically human culture and life. Steubenville Rape Case The two teens involved were sentenced, and four other people were charged [8] in relation to this crime. One news source getting attention in a different type of way is strange, however a newswoman approaching the case from a different angle does not represent the media as a whole or society as a whole. And looking at the amount of backlash, I can guarantee you that you, me, and loads of other people all disagree with what she said. One newswoman explaining how the kids could have had good lives is not a very good example of anything other than one person being ignorant/uncaring. Female nudes When photographs such as these are leaked, the only attention (usually empathy) is given to women. If anything compromising I took were leaked, I'd say "rats, I shouldn't have sent those," and leave it at that. Just like rape, there are bad people out there, but it makes sense to be safe... There has been numerous occasions of nudes leaked of males [9], and you know what happens? Nothing. No media outrage. No feminist group calling for the heads of the aggressors. In fact, people enjoy it when male nudes are leaked. So this affects both men and women, yet women get the sympathy and attention, while the media practically asks people to dig up male nudes. Once again, a problem affecting both genders, yet feminism focuses on one. Abortion When someone is against abortion, it isn't because they want to oppress women. It's usually due to religious reasons, and if not, it's because they consider human life important. I'm 100% on your side in regards to abortion, but unfortunately I disagree with what it means when someone is against it. I don't consider male circumcision sexism against men, as pro-circumcizers (lol) have "valid" reasoning as to why circumcision is a "good" thing. Same goes for abortion, it isn't sexism or misogyny or the patriarchy, it's people believing killing an unborn baby is a bad thing. Just like circumcision is a "good" thing as it is for cleanliness, apparently prevents STDs (no idea) etc. NOT misandry. Pay Gap For the source that you cited to be reliable, it needs to back up its figures. It also needs to provide much more specific job titles. "Supervisors of retail sales workers" is so broad that it's basically the same as saying "women earn less than men in general." A difference in pay between two people is not automatically assumed to be discrimination of any sort. Two groups of people? Teachers in British Columbia, Canada, earn about 18% less than teachers in Alberta, Canada [10]. Now this is taking all types of people into consideration. So you'll seriously need to prove it's sexism when one group of people is paid less than another, and not just job performance, education, unpaid leave, etc. Domestic Violence And men are victims of violent crime much more than women [11]. Laws and police exist to prevent this, not feminists or MRA's. Domestic violence is an issue for the cops, not feminism. Feminists are asking for the laws to favour them, to not have any safety concerns, and for companies to hire them because "it would be sexist not to." I'd like to see some stuff feminism is currently doing for men, if you can. [1] http://dayofthegirl.org... [2] https://www.facebook.com... [3] http://hurt2healingmag.com... [4] http://www.feminist.com... [5] http://www.equalvoice.ca... [6] http://www.theatlantic.com... [7] https://twitter.com... [8] http://www.huffingtonpost.com... [9] http://www.thegailygrind.com... [10] http://globalnews.ca... [11] http://www.victimsweek.gc.ca....

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Feminism-Hooray/1/