• CON

    There IS a certain type of privilege for men over women....

    Feminism is and has achieved equality. 3rd wave feminism is oppressive.

    To say that feminism has achieved equality is nonsense. First, let's clarify what we mean by 'feminist'. 'Feminism' is a broad, umbrella title that covers a lot of different types of feminism, each with differing goals and each with different ways to achieve them. It's like saying someone's a Christian. There's lots of types of Christianity, each with different beliefs and different ways of practising their beliefs. Second, let's clarify what third wave feminism (TWF) actually is: In short, TWF is mainly to do with challenging gender norms (e.g. why do we associate pink with girls and blue with boys. Feminine appearance vs masculine appearance, etc.), calling for reproductive rights, and celebrating sexuality as a means of female empowerment. Also, of course, TWF challenges norms of language (e.g. why is it the accepted way to use 'he' as a general pronoun, when 'he' is clearly male?) TWF has different views and different beliefs, but, generally, these are the main topics. Thirdly, I dare say some TWFs are oppressive - the extremist types. There are also extremist Christians, extremist Muslims, etc. Are you going to say that all Christians or all Muslims are extremist because of a few you see on TV? No. That's silly. Similarly, you wouldn't call all TWF extremists just because of one or two. You haven't actually given any reason or examples why you think people view TWF as a "controlling tool and a movement of aggression, lies, misinformation and manipulation". You just stated it. Asserting something isn't an argument. Nor does it make it true. Please provide reasons beyond anecdotal evidence. You may only have heard the words "male privilege, wage gaps, misogyny, slut shaming" etc. from feminists because they are the ones who notice it or want to bring it to our attention. You're proving their point if you ignore it. They mention it so that it is brought to our attention so we can do something about it. Pretending such problems don't exist doesn't mean they'll go away. Feminists bring them up so they can be challenged. And they're right. There IS a certain type of privilege for men over women. Employers are more likely to employ a white male over a black female. Or even more simple, every day examples - men are allowed to show more skin. Men aren't stigmatised if they go around topless. Women are. In 2013, women made 22% less than men in almost every occupation (source: http://www.iwpr.org... ). Wage gaps are real. 'Slut shaming' is a problem that harkens back to male privilege. There's a double standard. A guy can have sex with lots of girls and be called a 'lad' or a 'champion', having 'conquered' the female body. If a girl does it, she's a 'slut' or a 'tramp'. Such issues are real problems. That's why you hear feminists talking about them. (Though are they feminists and they talk about them, or are they feminists *because* they talk about them?) These are things that TWF clearly wants to get rid of - the male privilege, the double standard between sexes, the pay gaps. They also want to challenge more than that. It's also a matter of girl privilege and boy privilege. Girls can play with pink dolls when they're younger. If a boy does it, he's told he should play with the blue army toys. A boy would be told off for playing with girl toys or dressing in 'girl' clothes, such as dresses or skirts. These things are gendered. TWF tries to challenge this. They believe that everyone should be free to play with whatever toys or wear whatever colour without the stigma attached. (OF COURSE, blue/pink or boys toys/girls toys are just a small example of the issue, but that's the most obvious, easiest example to illustrate it with.) And... Women have asked to be able to do what they want before. And men have stopped them doing it. There was a suffragette movement in the UK for a number of years before the government conceded and gave women over 30 the right to vote. Women in Ireland have argued for the right to contraceptives for years before being given it in 1980. Women are STILL arguing for abortion rights. So to say "Did they ask before and were denied, not to anyones knowledge!" is false. Women have asked and they HAVE been denied. Many times. And "if men were so bad to woman, why would we even pass a bill to allow woman to do what they finally asked to be able to do?" - There are many answers to this question, the main two being: 1) Not all men hate women. That's pretty clear. Extreme feminists might, but then we're discounting them because it's clear they're crazed. We're talking about the more moderate types of TWF. 2) I'll assume you mean the right to vote? Because otherwise you're not making any sense. Women have asked for many different things and they haven't got it all. But they have the right to vote in many Western countries. They got the vote in the UK after a while and after wearing the UK government down. The suffragettes were quite active during World War One. This put more pressure on the UK government to get a deal done because they were taking their attention away from the war. David Lloyd-George's house was set alight, for example. The Representation of the People's Act 1918 was passed after the suffragettes became quite aggressive. It was a calming measure. (People also say it was to thank the women for the work they did during the war. That might be part of it, but the aggression from the suffragettes certainly helped.) It isn't called 'egalitarianism' because they have different origins. Feminism initially meant to advocate women's rights. Since then, it has changed massively. Now-a-days, they roughly are the same. Feminism, however, has different emphasises - things particularly to do with gender and sexuality, etc. But they aim for, relatively, the same goals.