PRO

  • PRO

    Therefore this argument should have no bearing on the...

    Digital art is a lesser form of art then traditional art

    Traditional art is expensive My opponent's first point is that traditional art is expensive while digital art is more cost efficient, therefore the two form are equal. However, something being less expensive does not make it better when speaking of quality. Therefore this argument should have no bearing on the resolution. Traditional art is limiting My opponent's next claim is that because it is easier to fix screw ups with digital art then it is for traditional art, the two forms are equal. This point might be useful if the resolution was that it is easier to make digital art. But the easier it is to produce something, the lower the quality will be. The quality of something which took me a minute to make will of course be less then the quality of something that was worked on painstakingly for months. Just because it is hard to make a piece of traditional art does not mean that digital art is on par with it. Traditional art being hard to make just forces the artist to become more skillful and careful in producing the Traditional art is limiting My opponent's next claim is that because it is easier to fix screw ups with digital art then it is for traditional art, the two forms are equal. This point might be useful if the resolution was that it is easier to make digital art. But the easier it is to produce something, the lower the quality will be. The quality of something which took me a minute to make will of course be less then the quality of something that was worked on painstakingly for months. Just because it is hard to make a piece of traditional art does not mean that digital art is on par with it. Traditional art being hard to make just forces the artist to become more skillful and careful in producing the art. Digital art is cheap This point is just a reitterating of my opponent's first point that traditional art is expensive to create. I will negate this contention like I did the first. We are debating on whether or not digital art is a lesser form of traditional art. Price should not come into the question of quality. Digital art can emulate traditional technique. My opponent's next claim is that digital art can be made to look like traditional art. This does not being on par as far as quality goes, just like a counterfeit dollar bill is not worth the same as a real dollar bill. Digital art is difficult to master My opponent now claims that digital art is difficult to create. However this contradicts one of his points in which he states that traditional art is too limiting in that it is harder to fix mistakes made when creating a traditional art work. Either it is easier or more difficult to create digital art. My opponent cannot keep both positions.

  • PRO

    Graffiti is usually pictures, images, and sometimes...

    Graffiti is art

    Thanks for accepting. Now for rebuttals: 1. "I think that if you want to do art, you should do it so it looks nice." Art does not have to "look nice". Art can be seen in many ways, looks don't matter. If I precisely drew an ugly person to represent that everyone is beautiful no matter what looks, it would still be art wouldn't it? 2. " Graffiti on walls or doors or trucks or wherever is not art. You are kind of ruining the thing if you draw graffiti. " Destruction can also be seen as art. Art is very vague, so it is seen in many different ways. Let em elaborate. Take "The art of war", a book written by a man of the name Sun Tzu. War brings destruction, yet there is an art to it. Same for graffiti, though you are ruining a wall, you are skilfully creating art, under the pressure of being caught. There is an art in that! 3. "Graffiti is usually letters put together." No way! Graffiti is usually pictures, images, and sometimes letters. And if you didn't know, when you put letters together, it is called a "word". Say it with me now, "word". And even if it is mostly words, writing is an art. They are sharing codes, words, on a wall. There is an art to that. They are painting their stories onto a wall. 4. " I'm trying to say that art is something that makes you feel good inside. " Well as I said earlier, war is an art. Does war make you feel good inside? Art does not need to make you feel good? Also there are horror movies, that scare people. It is an art of creating movies. But do these movies make you feel good and happy and safe inside? 5. "Art, on the other hand, makes you feel like you should admire the work and stay. " Some art is boring, or to tedious to understand. But it is still art. Now that I rendered all my opponent's points invalid, I would like to continue with my arguments. Before we can even begin to explain how graffiti is art, we need to understand definitions. Graffiti: "writing or drawings scribbled, scratched, or sprayed illicitly on a wall or other surface in a public place:" [1] Art: " the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power" [2] So art is expression, application, creativity! And what do street artist do? (other word for graffiti artist). They apply their skills, expression and creativity onto a huge illegal canvas. This is still art, but just not as respected. Also, it is called graffiti art for a reason. Art is literally in the name! So basically, I just want to explain how anything can be art, graffiti included. Though some art is more respected than others, it doesn't mean the others are not art. Graffiti is an art, involving skill, and knowledge. "Where can I put graffiti without getting caught? What message of logo or picture do I wan't to express?" These are questions that echo through the minds of graffiti artist. They create art that is not accepted, but it is still art. Art that is hard to create, but still as amazing as the ones that society accepts. 1.http://www.oxforddictionaries.com... 2.http://www.oxforddictionaries.com... Back to you con!

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Graffiti-is-art/4/
  • PRO

    Destruction can be art. ... Graffiti is an art, no matter...

    Graffiti is art

    Thanks for the response. Rebuttals: I. You are not humiliating them, and either way it is art. It is a drawing that involved creativity, therefore an art. II. Graffiti is used to express yourself in a world where your art is not accepted. War brought violence, though it is not illegal, it was worst. What is worst? Killing thousands, or drawing something on a wall you don't own? III. Destruction can be art. If it applies creativity and expression, according to the definition we used, destruction is art. IV: I said " Art does not need to make you feel good" which is why I brought up the horror movies. Basically, it is art even if it is unwanted. V: Where does it say illegal things aren't arts? Tell me where? According to the definition we used, graffiti is art. The ethics behind it have nothing to do with it. Let us say for example a person drew a painting against Islam. It would be illegal because it would insult Muslims, but does that make it not art any more? VI: You said it shouldn't be considered art. That is not the debate. The debate is whether it is art or not, not whether it should be art not. So this point kinda has nothing to do with the debate. I am basically trying to express how anything can be art, regardless of the ethics. Going against the law is an amazing thing that takes courage. Having courage is an art. Graffiti is an art, no matter how much you dislike it.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Graffiti-is-art/4/
  • PRO

    Art-the expression or application of human creative skill...

    Modern Art

    Definitions Because Pro does not provide definitions, I will provide universal definitions. Art-the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. Modern Art-the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. Modern art is the same but during the period from the 1860s to present. Attacks The drawings the Pro give us are also modernabstractart. http://www.newsweek.com... These are also modern art. Modern Art can include structures and 3-D art as well. Gillian Wearing and Marjetica Potrc are famous modern artists. Also, its like a song. Art contains a hidden meaning like some songs do. Another great part about modern art are the ways you can interpret them. Just because you can't feel them doesn't mean they are pointless. Video games are art, but no type of art can be the real art. Art is expressing yourself in your own creative way. Thank you!

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Modern-Art/1/
  • PRO

    Great points of view. But you are thinking to literally,...

    Graffiti is art

    Great points of view. But you are thinking to literally, you also need to think metaphorically to resolve this argument. Rebuttals: "Vandalism is willful or ignorant destruction of artistic or literary treasures. (http://dictionary.reference.com......) So. you are destroying art, not creating art." Think of graffiti like photoshop. Sometimes, you find a picture, or art and you change it completely. You edit things, change the lighting and more. Sometime you change a picture completely, as if to change it to your perspective. Graffiti can be like this. Imagine a piece of art. You may see it as something beautiful and majestic, however a person may possibly see it as potential. They change it with things like scribbles, and words. It is not exactly destroying the painting, but actually changing it. Though some may just to graffiti randomly on this painting, it can still be considered art. Now here are more arguments explaining how graffiti is art. Firstly, anything can be art. It all depends on how someone perceives it. For example, you may see graffiti and vandalism, but someone else may see art that is forbidden, and hated. So if someone draws a scribble, it may represent something, or have hidden messages. [1]. Many people perceive art through what is hidden, through what is behind the painting. What the painting is really trying to express. In the words of Napoleon Bonapart "A picture is worth a thousand words." [2] Graffiti expresses hidden messages, and hidden thoughts, just like in art. Secondly, graffiti is not only vandalism, it is a form of art. For example, when you draw graffiti on a piece of paper, it is still graffiti, not vandalism. Here are some examples. [3] So graffiti is not always connected to vandalism. Since vandalism according to your argument "Vandalism is willful or ignorant destruction of artistic or literary treasures." and graffiti can be done on paper without vandalising or destroying anything, it is considered art. Also, graffiti is technically art, since graffiti is also known as street art. It literally has the word "art" in it. In conclusion (thus far) graffiti is a form of art that portrays drawings, scribbles or symbols. This can be done illegally by being portrayed in areas accessible to the public, or simply drawn on paper or a canvas. When graffiti is done illegally, it is spontaneous and dangerous. However it is free, giving street artist no boundaries. Also these artist go against the world to demonstrate their ideas, their ideas that society has rejected. Ideas that only few people who truly see art for what it is, not for how it was done can understand. Graffiti is not only art, but it is more worthy of being considered art than many famous paintings such as the Mona Lisa. Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci was a loved man. He was a painter, sculptor, architect, musician, mathematician, engineer, inventor, anatomist, geologist, cartographer, botanist, and writer. [4] He was praised and loved, and his art work was as well. He could make a painting with ease and all would love him. He had little to fear when it came to his art. Street artist are forsaken, they have a lot to fear. However, they fight against the odds, and create amazing art that no one would except, but they were not scared, they did what they loved. Leonardo da Vinci loved his work also, but street artist had to fight for others to love their work to. So in conclusion, graffiti is a form of spontaneous dangerous art that is only excepted by few. Sources: 1.http://www.psfk.com... 2.http://www.brainyquote.com... 3.http://chottomatteiru.blogspot.ca... 4.http://en.wikipedia.org...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Graffiti-is-art/1/
  • PRO

    Buyers of art chose this art because they think it means...

    Modern Art

    Once again, I never said that having a message makes it necessarily good. http://painting.about.com... This is evidence on how to judge ppaintings. http://www.urbandictionary.com... These "line drawings" are abstract art. This type of art has its own purpose in the different ways of art. Buyers of art chose this art because they think it means something very important to them. I repeat myself, I never said that songs aren't only judged by their message, and I never said that messages aren't the only other thing, but to the art you point at, abstract art, these are special because of there unique differential views. You constantly drop the arguement that the art is absract. So, you are making flawed conclusions to these drawings. I state once more that art can be seen to everyone differently. So, just becasue you see it bad, it doesn't mean that the art is now pointless. I have attacked the Pro's weak case with evidence.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Modern-Art/1/
  • PRO

    War is much worst than graffiti. ... sources:...

    Graffiti is art

    This debate is quite exciting. I apologize for the amount of time it took me to respond. Rebuttals: "I. It is humiliation because its their property, and its their opinion on how they want the place to look. If they want it to look "artistic" they would do it or have someone do it. But they dont want "art" on their property. Therefore, it is humiliation." First of all, graffiti is not only on walls, or other peoples property, but also on paper. Because of such, according to the definition we have established, graffiti is a form of art. To continue, though it may be "humiliating" it is still art. Graffiti is illegal, and some people think it is wrong, or humiliating, but how does this take away what it is? Art is seen in everything, including graffiti. Just because it may be seen as humiliating, it is still an art. Anyway. some people do not think graffiti is humiliation, including me. So not in all cases graffiti is humiliation, but it is art in all cases, no matter how you see it. "II. Ok if you ask me, I think that ruining from neighborhoods to blocks, to every single property they dont own is worse than killing thousands and saving millions to make the world a better place." How on earth does killing thousands of people, destroying millions of cities, and ruining families better than having a few marks in a city that can easily be removed? Tell me how? This is obviously incorrect, even though it is your opinions, it is a terrible one. War is much worst than graffiti. "In your opinion, destruction is art. But in the opinion who has "art" on their property, its destruction. They DONT want art on their property. Therefore, it is not art, its destructing someone's land." Though they might not see it art, it is art. It is not my opinion, but the opinion of art itself. Anything is art, and graffiti is one to. Why do you think it's called "graffiti art"? It literally has the word art in it! "V. You can consider it art, but some people wont consider it art. Like I said before, they would consider it... a not-good thing." But this is their incorrect opinions. According to our definition, graffiti is art. You can consider it otherwise, but in the end it will always be art. It's like how people think war is a good thing, but no matter what it will always be killing, and destroying. "Going against the law is not something good." Going against the law can be good. It all depends on how you understand the world. If a law is terrible, it is good to go against it. " If you really want to be so artistic, just do graffiti on a canvas or your own property. " People do do graffiti on a canvas. And people do it in public for everyone to see, a place where their art has to be seen, you can't ignore it very easily. Arguments: Art is as we have already discussed, any way to express yourself creatively. Graffiti requires such, therefore an art. Graffiti requires expression as I have already mentioned. Here is a text I found in order to elaborate, "Graffiti is a form of expression, and artists should be free to make their thoughts and beliefs public. Serving as a way to avoid violence, graffiti is an outlet for many to express their feelings. Making street art illegal limits the freedom of artists to create influential masterpieces. Graffiti artists create works that reflect both struggles and accomplishments and at many times display political and social messages. The paint that coats walls in communities everywhere can contain symbolism so profound that it has been compared to poetry." [1] As you can see, graffiti requires enough to be seen as an art. Everything can be an art. Even doing nothing is an art. So graffiti is art, no matter how bad, humiliating, or illegal it may be. Graffiti requires creativity, courage, expression, all the signs of a masterpiece. So how could this thing, though illegal possibly not be and art? According to our definition, and all definitions, graffiti is an art, no matter how wrong it may or may not be. sources: 1.http://chscourier.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Graffiti-is-art/4/
  • PRO

    My personal definition is that an artwork must possess...

    Art that has no discernible point--Modern or Postmodern--is not art

    My opponent has a fundamental misunderstanding of what art really is. He says that he has always thought of art as an "extremely broad term." Even the broadest terms have definitions, and so it is with art. According to Wikipedia, "Generally art is a (product of) human activity, made with the intention of stimulating the human senses as well as the human mind; by transmitting emotions and/or ideas." (http://en.wikipedia.org...) This is a wide, basic definition, and Wiki admits that beyond this there is no generally agreed upon definition. My personal definition is that an artwork must possess truth and beauty--whether these are apparent at first glance or only after long study. And no, my bias against the pieces and classes of art I have mentioned is not based on my personal views, but rather on the basic definition of art as provided by Wikipedia. The pieces I spoke of ARE generally "products of human activity," and they MAY, on a basic level, have the INTENT of "stimulating the human senses as well as the human mind," (although I would hazard that it most of these pieces were made for personal gratification or pure monetary value) but they are CERTAINLY not "transmitting emotions and/or ideas." They are not even symbolic. They have no meaning. Art, I'm sure you'll agree, must have meaning. My opponent says, "We can only conclude that these pieces stray from the traditions of past artists and that my opponent dislikes them." My opponent cannot conclude that these artists have strayed from past traditions. People have been creating NON-art art for centuries. However, it is only in this day and age that it has transcended all other forms of "art." He can logically conclude that I do not like the pieces, but that in itself is irrelevant, and it is fallacious to boil my argument down to that. It would be like me saying, "We can conclude that my opponent DOES like the pieces." My opponent also says, "I argue that it is impossible to give an objective scale to measure whether something is art or not, so my opponent's declaration that 'X is not art' is false." If this were true, then this would be a futile debate for both of us because if there is no standard for art, there is no art, and nothing to judge the debate by. Art, like most everything in this universe, is finite and has standards. It is objective. In conclusion, my opponent says, "Simply put, everything is art." Again, this is fallacious, and would be akin to me saying "Simply put, NOTHING is art," and equally false. The most BASIC definition of art is that it is created by human activity. Since "everything" is not created by human activity, this statement is utterly false. You cannot hang a tree in a frame and call it art. Well, actually you can, and if you have a big name in the art business, you can even sell it to a museum or eager private collector for a large sum of money. But this is not art. My opponent basically holds that there is no definition to art. Art, he says, is "everything." This is demonstrably false. Once again, the "art" that I have described is not true art. It has no truth or beauty, it is merely scratches on paper, etc. Perhaps it does not signify anything, even to the artist. And it is most certainly not created to stimulate the mind and senses, or if it is, it fails and thus fails to be art. The Modern/Postmodern art craze can be summed up by a comic strip I once saw. I believe it was from Non Sequitur. A man, trying to impress his companion, walked up to a blank piece of wall in an art museum and, with arms outstretched, started to extol its virtues. He believed it was a piece of art, and gave it all sorts of pop-art qualities likes, "shows the artist's soul," etc. While this was going on, a janitor came up and hung an artwork on the blank space on the wall. "Had to clean the dang thing," he said, apologetically. The last panel showed the other people in the room looking at the man in disgust, while he hung his head. It was an excellent, meaningful comic strip, and it's totally true. When everything is art, nothing is.

  • PRO

    I thank con for accepting this debate. I also would I...

    Graffiti is art

    I thank con for accepting this debate. I also would I like to mention that 1st round was acceptance, so now this debate is somewhat unfair since you have more rounds to debate. Nevertheless, I continue. REBUTTALS: "Graffiti is not art! Some of it may be, but that is only the paintings and murals. " In this argument you just admitted that graffiti is an art. "Graffiti is what you see on the streets with gang names and code words for doing drugs or to say threats. " Graffiti is seen in many ways. Gangs use graffiti to mark their territory, and drug dealers do the same. However graffiti is not only done by these people, but a variety of individuals who put things on the walls. Graffiti does not always demonstrate evil things. "Most drug dealers study graffiti to be able to figure out the code and where people are selling drugs based on their graffiti." As you can see, they study to understand codes, according to what you said. There is in art in that, correct me if I'm wrong. " Art is murals and paintings and sculptures. " Art is seen in many ways. Everything can be art in it's own way. However if you are explaining what is technically art, you are incorrect. You neglect a variety of arts including dance, theatre, music etc. ARGUMENTS: Before anything, we need to understand the 3 basic things we need to know for this debate: art, graffiti and vandalism. Definitions: Art: " the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination" [1] Graffiti: "writing or drawings scribbled, scratched, or sprayed illicitly on a wall or other surface in a public place" [2] Vandalism: "the wanton or deliberate destruction caused by a vandal or an instance of such destruction" [3] So art is an expression or application involving creativity and skill, something that graffiti uses both of. Graffiti is written in public places in a variety of crazy spots. Take these for example: [4] This forum shows a variety of graffiti in crazy places, which happens very often. It takes hard work to do that, or in other words: skill. Graffiti also involves creativity, some graffiti is amazing. [5] These pictures involve creativity, and explains how graffiti artist chose to change their surroundings to their imagination, or in other words art. So the big question now is " How is vandalism art?". Well that's the thing, Vandalism includes graffiti, that doesn't mean all graffiti is vandalism. If a man draws graffiti styled art (keep in mind that graffiti is literally called "graffiti art") then it is no longer vandalism, yet still graffiti. Graffiti is an art, and an amazing one at that. Your turn con! :D sources: 1:http://www.oxforddictionaries.com... 2:http://www.oxforddictionaries.com... 3:http://www.thefreedictionary.com... 4:http://www.bombingscience.com... 5:http://thechive.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Graffiti-is-art/2/
  • PRO

    This is a art challenge between NiamC and...

    Art Challenge

    This is a art challenge between NiamC and ESocialBookworm. The rules are simple: 1st round is acceptance 2nd &3rd round is to show work. To show your work, paste your work on your debate round, to be safe, include a link to the photo of the art in a album on your Debate.org page. The art work can be any theme The art can be any size The art can be from any Material. GO NUTS!

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Art-Challenge/1/

CON

  • CON

    Forfeiting a round does NOT mean that person looses, but...

    Digital art is a lesser form of art then traditional art

    Rules: 1. No semantics 2. Both sides have a burden to prove their side 3. All arguments must be organized with postmarks prior to argumentation. (i.e. no huge chunks of text that are all over the place) 4. No semantics or arguing over definitions 5. The moment a rule is broken, the violator will lose the debate. 6. Forfeiting a round does NOT mean that person looses, but if some-one does forfeit a round they will lose a conduct point. Round 1 is for greeting/definitions Rounds 2 and 3 are for argumentation Round 4 is for closing statements and voting issues (No new arguments here.) Definitions- 1. Digital art: Art made by digital means, or enhanced through a digital platfom (Pixel art, digital paintings, edited photography etc.) 2. Traditional art: Art made with-out any kind of digital medium. (Painting, colored pencils, copic marker art, etc.)

  • CON

    If it took me three hours to make a pizza; but it only...

    Digital art is a lesser form of art then traditional art

    Rebuttal overview- First; My opponent has not upheld his burden by offering any constructive arguments for Traditional Art; thus the maximum benefit he can hope to achieve is a tie. Second; My opponent's refutations also does not refute the argumentation behind my own constructive claims. that said, I will now move on to my opponent's refutations Traditional art is expensive- First my opponent makes a very general and vague statement in refutation of this argument. First; this debate's realm is not solely quality, but whether or not Digital art is lesser than traditional art, thus since price is a huge part of this (as many artists are not rich) price is a huge factor in determining this debate. Traditional art is limiting- First my opponent offers a logical fallacy here. he claims that if something takes longer to make, then it will be of a higher quality. This is utterly not true! If it took me three hours to make a pizza; but it only took a master chef 30 minutes, my pizza doesn't taste any better because I took longer on it. Ultimately it comes down to the skill of the artist to which is better. That said, the undeniable truth that traditional art is limiting (which Pro never denies) is still true Digital art is cheap- My opponent extended his attacks on this contention (and utterly ignored what I was saying here) so I will simply extend the same defense as on my first point. Digital art can emulate traditional technique- Again, this debate is not solely about quality (yet another logical fallacy of my opponent). And even if it where, his backing behind this argument is flawed because it make the claim that digital art is not real art by comparing it to counterfeit money. Digital art is difficult to master- The attack my opponent makes here is non-viable. First; the limitations are different, thus not comparable. Just as an apple and an orange are different and not comparable Second; Here I'm talking about mastering the style, not fixing a mistake. Just because a person knows how to use an eraser (Fix a mistake) does not mean that becoming a Da Vinci, Rembrandt, Picasso, or Monet is easy. My opponent's attacks here are based on faulty assumptions. Now going down, my opponent presents no counter arguments for me to attack; thus if even one of my points remains true I must win by default until my opponent makes a case for traditional art.

  • CON

    Thus I will be using this constructive speech time to...

    Digital art is a lesser form of art then traditional art

    Federico Fellini once said, "All art is autobiographical. The pearl is the oyster's autobiography." and the simple fact is; this is utterly true. Art is expression regardless of the field or medium, whether the artist holds an acrylic soaked paint brush; or the stylus of a tablet- the end product is a sincere expression of themselves. Now in the realm of framing this debate; both sides have a burden of proof. I must prove that both mediums (digital and traditional) are equal; my opponent must either prove that traditional art is superior to digital art, or that digital art is of lesser value. As I've already proven, all art has inherent worth being that it is art; and medium has nothing to do with it being any better or any worse. Thus I will be using this constructive speech time to point out some practical points between the two; and discussing the true difficulty behind Digital art. Also for clarification; my sources are posted in the comments section. Traditional art is expensive- Now in our society today he have digital Also for clarification; my sources are posted in the comments section. Traditional art is expensive- Now in our society today he have digital art all over the place; it has utterly saturated our society (and with good reason). Digital art is convenient and cost effective. Speaking from experience; good traditional art supplies are expensive. A popular brand of markers known as Copic markers (I love these tings) [1] can go for anywhere between $5-8 a marker. a set of only twelve markers costs roughly $80 a set of 72 markers can cost near $470 and a complete set can cost well over $1,000. also given the obvious fact that when doing traditional art you are bound to eventually run out of supplies. [2]Acrylic paint (a much more common medium) is also impractical; it can cost anywhere from $2-20 per 1 ounce bottle. Not to mention that paint eventually runs out as well; which can lead to a piece drying before finished and ultimately being ruined. I could go on forever making this same comparison; but he point is made; Good traditional art supplies are expensive, and eventually run out. Traditional art is limiting- When working in digital art; the artist's best friend quickly becomes Ctrl+z, traditional art does not have this luxury. When using colored pencils(my favorite traditional medium), if too much is applied (a technique also known as burnishing) the color cannot be taken off, or colored over. when using watercolor, if the water is spilled; or too much water is used--the entire picture can be completely destroyed. In chalk pastels (also a personal favorite) In conclusion of traditional medium, it is expensive; and only completely available to certain portion of society who can afford to continuously buy the necessary products. While the product can be beautiful and amazing; we can see in the area of a pragmatic approach, Traditional art is far from being better. Digital art is cheap- For digital art you only need a few things, things that most people already readily have access to. A computer, the internet, (and the only thing you have to buy) a graphic tablet. [3] A Wacom intuos medium tablet costs a one-time price of only $349. (And that's only assuming you buy the medium size, you can opt for a smaller size and save $130.) Or if you can't afford that; Wacom also offers a cheaper model, the [4] Bamboo Pen (the kind I use) for only $69. As for the program; every PC ( I'm not sure about mac ) comes with a standard program [5] MS Paint, you can also download the free program [6]Gimp said to rival photoshop in usage, or use the free online tool [7] sumo paint and even [8] Deviantart's Da muro. I could mention the multiple other free online outlets, and such; but I feel I've made this point abundantly clear. Digital art can emulate traditional technique- As an adamant supporter of this style; I feel it important to point out [9] digital painting. A technique in which you paint a picture, with a digital program. The finished product looks just as good (in many cases better) than traditional painting techniques. [10] Watercolor, [11] colored pencils, [12] and pastel can also be emulated via digital medium Digital art is difficult to master- I'll be frank; drawing on a tablet is much harder than drawing free-hand. thankfully I'm blessed enough to own a scanner and be able to scan in my line drawing do then do work on them digitally. Far too often people discredit digital artists; giving all the glory of the art to a computer, or a program and not realizing just how difficult it really is. Go ahead I urge you right now to open MS paint and free hand (as in with the pencil tool not the circle tool) draw as perfect a circle as you can. then do the exact same with a pencil and paper. Digital artists have a lot less control over their canvases as opposed to traditional artists, and even with the convenience of a graphic tablet you still have the limitations of working with a bit-map (or vector field if the art is vector). Yet even with such limitations, digital artists are still able to create works of stunning beauty. Now at this moment I will close my constructive as to not completely overwhelm my opponent before they have an opportunity to present their own case. But thus far; I feel as though I've proven the point-- all art is art, regardless of medium.

  • CON

    I do believe firmly that the "lines and colours" hold...

    Modern Art

    I am an artist, and I can understand modern art. I do believe firmly that the "lines and colours" hold certain, deep, and unforgettable memories or thoughts for the artist, but modern art is being taken too far. Art is for viewing, and in the case of modern art, there is nothing there to visualize, to compare to. Picasso's work's are generally considered the first of modern art, and in his art, you can clearly see a scene, but also follow is train of thought throughout the piece, as if a surreal dream, in the context of modern art that you have been describing, there is no basis for the viewer, and therefore, there is no connection to be made, between the art and the viewer. Conclusion: My points are clear, and ideals driven, I deeply love "modern art" and hate it at the exact same time. In any sense, what are you hoping to accomplish with the title of this debate being "Modern Art"? Is this debate, a manifestation of art too?

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Modern-Art/2/
  • CON

    On dictionary.com, vandalism is described as willful or...

    Graffiti is art

    On dictionary.com, vandalism is described as willful or ignorant destruction of artistic or literary treasures. So once again vandalism and graffiti are destruction of art not production of art. "Ergo, graffiti is a hated, misjudged form of art." -It is hated because it destroys art, otherwise aren't we supposed to look at art fondly? If graffiti is photoshop it is the 'erase button' and thus is not art. Even if it was function of photo shop it cannot be art itself so this photoshop option is very out of place. In round 3 your analogy of old and new artists is very unuseful and is off-topic. Being afraid and whether graffiti is art are not at all related and only put confusion to your conclusion. And to correct your last sentence in round 3- So in conclusion, graffiti is a form of spontaneous dangerous crime that is only excepted by few who are in the same criminal profession.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Graffiti-is-art/1/
  • CON

    I have a difficult time following his line of thought, as...

    Art that has no discernible point--Modern or Postmodern--is not art

    My opponent declares that art must pass certain standards in order to be categorized as art. I have a difficult time following his line of thought, as I have always envisioned art to be an extremely broad term. Going by my opponent's argument, we cannot logically conclude that those things are not art. We can only conclude that these pieces stray from the traditions of past artists and that my opponent dislikes them. I argue that it is impossible to give an objective scale to measure whether something is art or not, so my opponent's declaration that "X is not art" is false. Simply put, everything is art.

  • CON

    My personal definition is that an artwork must possess...

    Art that has no discernible point--Modern or Postmodern--is not art

    "Even the broadest terms have definitions, and so it is with art." That's fair. I'll examine the definition of art as provided by my opponent. "According to Wikipedia, "Generally art is a (product of) human activity, made with the intention of stimulating the human senses as well as the human mind; by transmitting emotions and/or ideas."" This is a fair definition. I agree with it. "My personal definition is that an artwork must possess truth and beauty--whether these are apparent at first glance or only after long study." This is where I must disagree. I can concede the wikipedia definition, but truth and beauty are completely subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we assume infinite opinions. Thus, beauty cannot be a necessary quality. As for truth, I'm not sure how my opponent defines truth. "The pieces I spoke of ARE generally "products of human activity," and they MAY, on a basic level, have the INTENT of "stimulating the human senses as well as the human mind," (although I would hazard that it most of these pieces were made for personal gratification or pure monetary value)" That is a concession. That means I only have to focus on the final requirement. "but they are CERTAINLY not "transmitting emotions and/or ideas." They are not even symbolic. They have no meaning. "The pieces I spoke of ARE generally "products of human activity," and they MAY, on a basic level, have the INTENT of "stimulating the human senses as well as the human mind," (although I would hazard that it most of these pieces were made for personal gratification or pure monetary value)" That is a concession. That means I only have to focus on the final requirement. "but they are CERTAINLY not "transmitting emotions and/or ideas." They are not even symbolic. They have no meaning. Art, I'm sure you'll agree, must have meaning." Yes, and those pieces do have meaning. Meaning is not intrinsic, meaning is bestowed upon other things by human beings. A piece of art is a piece of art as long as one person views it as such. Whether it is the artist himself or another admirer. "My opponent says, "We can only conclude that these pieces stray from the traditions of past artists and that my opponent dislikes them." My opponent cannot conclude that these artists have strayed from past traditions. People have been creating NON-art art for centuries. However, it is only in this day and age that it has transcended all other forms of "art." He can logically conclude that I do not like the pieces, but that in itself is irrelevant, and it is fallacious to boil my argument down to that. It would be like me saying, "We can conclude that my opponent DOES like the pieces."" That's fine. When I mentioned these two points, I was conceding them as irrelevant fact. If my opponent chooses to attack a concession, that's fine with me. "My opponent also says, "I argue that it is impossible to give an objective scale to measure whether something is art or not, so my opponent's declaration that 'X is not art' is false." If this were true, then this would be a futile debate for both of us because if there is no standard for art, there is no art, and nothing to judge the debate by. Art, like most everything in this universe, is finite and has standards. It is objective." I retract that statement. I instead offer one objective standard: That someone believe it to be art. As long as one person believes something to be art, it is art. I extend this point by noting that art does not intrinsically exist. Art is a description, not a thing. This description is given by humans. "In conclusion, my opponent says, "Simply put, everything is art." Again, this is fallacious, and would be akin to me saying "Simply put, NOTHING is art," and equally false. The most BASIC definition of art is that it is created by human activity. Since "everything" is not created by human activity, this statement is utterly false." Fair. But I have already accepted the wikipedia definition and offered a rebuttal. "You cannot hang a tree in a frame and call it art. Well, actually you can, and if you have a big name in the art business, you can even sell it to a museum or eager private collector for a large sum of money. But this is not art." I disagree. The fact that my opponent says a tree hanging on a frame is not art does not mean it is not art. For example, I can hang a tree in a frame and interpret it as irony, or a symbol for nature-worship, or for anthropomorphic thinking. So long as one person sees art in something, it is art. "Once again, the "art" that I have described is not true art. It has no truth or beauty, it is merely scratches on paper, etc. Perhaps it does not signify anything, even to the artist. And it is most certainly not created to stimulate the mind and senses, or if it is, it fails and thus fails to be art." Scratches on paper can be interpreted as futility and frustration. Imagine an artist trying to draw something but the lead snapped and he can only scratch on the paper. It becomes a symbol of rebellion and apathy. To me, that is beautiful, meaningful, and true. Even if the artist did not intend that, that is how I interpret it, and thus it is art. "The Modern/Postmodern art craze can be summed up by a comic strip I once saw. I believe it was from Non Sequitur. A man, trying to impress his companion, walked up to a blank piece of wall in an art museum and, with arms outstretched, started to extol its virtues. He believed it was a piece of art, and gave it all sorts of pop-art qualities likes, "shows the artist's soul," etc. While this was going on, a janitor came up and hung an artwork on the blank space on the wall. "Had to clean the dang thing," he said, apologetically. The last panel showed the other people in the room looking at the man in disgust, while he hung his head. It was an excellent, meaningful comic strip, and it's totally true." Argumentum ad populum. Whether or not something is art is not dictated by majority rule. Art is in the mind. If the man felt such an emotional connection to the frame, does that not reflect the purpose of art? Did he not feel an actual connection and was he not uplifted? *************** To sum up, I have offered a contrary definition that I think is more acceptable. Art is art when someone sees it as art. Art is not a thing. It is a description. To call something art is to give it meaning, and meaning is an arbitrary outgrowth of man. Things mean things only to us. Each and every single one of the examples my opponent provides can be seen as art. The Virgin Mary in a container of urine may be a statement on how religion is disregarded in our secular, cynical world. I already gave my interpretations of the tree hanging in the frame, the blank frame, and scratches on paper. My opponent has conceded 2 out of the three requirements. I need only respond to the last one, which is that art must elicit some sort of emotional response. I have done so, and have simplified it to "Art is art when someone sees it as art". Those pieces elicit a response in me, at the very least, so they are must undoubtedly art.

  • CON

    GAMEMAKERS "but also they are allowed boundless...

    Are Videogames Art

    art: "the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance." http://dictionary.reference.com... using the word production in the definition of art, means for it to be productive to the soul and those who view the form of art. Thus i will be basing this off productivity. GAMEMAKERS "but also they are allowed boundless opportunities to use their creativity and imagination, which sounds like art to me." video games in themselves are not where the creativity and imagination spark from. the creators of the game being the ones who put forth all the creativity are the ones using imagination and creativity. Such as paintings and soul music can be considered a form of art because of this creativity and imagination that they themselves put into the particular frame of art. but those who view the art, cannot be said to have used the creativity and imagination, simply by viewing the said artwork. so the point here is that the game itself does not spark creativity and imagination, however, but the makers of the game Such as paintings and soul music can be considered a form of art because of this creativity and imagination that they themselves put into the particular frame of art. but those who view the art, cannot be said to have used the creativity and imagination, simply by viewing the said artwork. so the point here is that the game itself does not spark creativity and imagination, however, but the makers of the game art the ones who have used creativity and imagination. UNPRODUCTIVITY While the people who made them game used a form of art in making the game by being creative and imaginitive, the game in itself does not provide a form of productivity or, seemingly, a specific influential point. For example, everything that is considered art has a certain meaning or phase to the the benefit of learning.meaning Every piece of art must have an influential meaning that can be used as pertaining to human life. Although games like halo and final fantasy did have alot of imagination and creativity used in them and are very fun, they pose no specific point or influential benefits. when and if a game pertained the the inspiration of mankind other than the destruction of it, it could be used as an example of 'a piece of art'. however this is not the case with games such as in all the games you have listed. Dont get me wrong, i enjoy playing video games, and i do think they are fun, but i do not beleieve they would fall uner the category of art. thankyou -philosophical

  • CON

    Modern art is trashy, And their excuse for it is "beauty...

    Modern art.

    Today the debate is simple: Modern art. My stand is this: Art standards have fallen to the point where there are no standards at all. Modern art is trashy, And their excuse for it is "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" Art should not be made to express a statement. Beauty is transcendent. Not just in the eye of the beholder.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Modern-art./1/
  • CON

    So what about a group measurement, comparing the...

    Art is gay

    My opponent proposes: 1. Art sucks. 2. Only wimps like art. My opponent has failed to define art in this debate, so I am left to search for a definition myself. I propose, for the purposes of this debate, art be considered to mean any form of creative pursuit. Things like painting, drawings, music, literature, which serve no real world purpose other than to be enjoyed and reveled in. Now my opponents former claim is a bit dusty, as appeal is something which is entirely subjective. Certainly my opponent may not enjoy art, but how does this become some form of inherent measurement? If we were to measure art based on subjective appeal, we would get no where. So what about a group measurement, comparing the collective appeal with collective disinterest? But even that is still largely subjective and based on spread and popularity. My opponent has failed to give any form of way to determine that art sucks. They have simply made the claim, and expect us to agree. Now look, art has existed since the dawn of man. Paintings and music have followed us everywhere, across every culture. It should be obvious to anyone that But even that is still largely subjective and based on spread and popularity. My opponent has failed to give any form of way to determine that art sucks. They have simply made the claim, and expect us to agree. Now look, art has existed since the dawn of man. Paintings and music have followed us everywhere, across every culture. It should be obvious to anyone that art has huge appeal, else there would not be such droves that pursue it. Painting may have fallen out of the public eye in this day and age, but professional photography is it's modern replacement. And music still plays a major role in our lives. Clearly, art does not suck, as billions of people across the globe revel in artistic merit every day. My opponents latter claim is easy to disprove. Only wimps enjoy art? Leonardo Da Vinci was a wimp? Vincent van Gogh, who cut off his ear, was a wimp? Ludwig van Beethoven was a wimp? I could go on and on, listing badass artists, but I've already made my point. Clearly not ONLY wimps like art. My opponent has failed to defend his case, which falls apart in light of my own.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Art-is-gay/1/