PRO

  • PRO

    Common definitions are assumed, unless otherwise stated...

    Anthropogenic global climate change.

    I will contend that anthropegenic climate change exists. The contender will contend that anthropegenic climate change is non-existent. Structure R1 Acceptance & definitions R2 Arguments R3 Rebuttals R4 Defense Burden of proof Burden of proof will be shared equally. This is because I am making the affrimative claim and the instiagator, yet am arguing for what is normally accepted in the scientific community. Therefore, the burdens of proof cancel each other out resulting in neutral 50/50 burden of proof. Further explanation of r1 setup. First round is just for acceptance and definitions if need be. Common definitions are assumed, unless otherwise stated and agreed upon. Anthropogenic " Caused by humans" [1] Round two each person will make their argument, but no direct responses to the other person's argument. Focus on making a convincing argument that if not for your opponent's rebuttal would sell your audience. This is the only round to make new arguments for your case. Round three each person will respond directly to their opponent's round two argument pointing out any logical fallacies and attempt to find flaws. Round four each person defends their round two argument against their opponent's round three argument. For example if I say that is a cherry picking fallacy as a rebuttal in round three against my opponent round two argument, my opponent would explain in round four as a defense why me calling their argument a cherry picking fallacy is incorrect. Thank you in advance for accepting the debate. Previous debate for reference. [0] Try to stick to the structure please, makes it much easier for voters to follow the debate. Source. 0. http://www.debate.org... 1. http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Anthropogenic-global-climate-change./1/
  • PRO

    First round is just for acceptance and definitions if...

    Anthropogenic climate change.

    I will contend that anthropegenic climate change exists. The contender will contend that anthropegenic climate change is non-existent. Structure R1 Acceptance & definitions R2 Arguments R3 Rebuttals R4 Defense Burden of proof Burden of proof will be shared equally. This is because I am making the affrimative claim and the instiagator, yet am arguing for what is normally accepted in the scientific community. Therefore, the burdens of proof cancel each other out resulting in neutral 50/50 burden of proof. Further explanation of r1 setup. First round is just for acceptance and definitions if need be. Common definitions are assumed, unless otherwise stated and agreed upon. Round two each person will make their argument, but no direct responses to the other person' argument. Focus on making a convincing argument that if not for your opponent's rebuttal would sell your audience. This is the only round to make new arguments for your case. Round three each person will respond directly to their opponent's round two argument pointing out any logical fallacies and attempt to find flaws. Round four each person defends their round argument against their opponent's round three argument. For example if I say that Common definitions are assumed, unless otherwise stated and agreed upon. Round two each person will make their argument, but no direct responses to the other person' argument. Focus on making a convincing argument that if not for your opponent's rebuttal would sell your audience. This is the only round to make new arguments for your case. Round three each person will respond directly to their opponent's round two argument pointing out any logical fallacies and attempt to find flaws. Round four each person defends their round argument against their opponent's round three argument. For example if I say that is a cherry picking fallacy in round two, my opponent would explain why me calling their argument a cherry picking fallacy is incorrect. Thank you in advance for accepting the debate.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Anthropogenic-climate-change./1/
  • PRO

    With most of its army in Europe fighting Napoleon,...

    Climate Change is a real issue

    The War of 1812 was a conflict fought between the United States and its allies, And the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and its allies. It began when the United States declared war in June 1812, And ended mostly in the situation as it existed before the war when a peace treaty agreed to earlier was ratified by the United States in February 1815. Historians in Britain often see it as a minor theatre of the Napoleonic Wars, While historians in North America see it as a war in its own right; it can be considered part of the American Indian Wars and Sixty Years' War. From the outbreak of war with Napoleonic France in 1803, Britain had enforced a naval blockade to choke off neutral trade to France, Which the United States contested as illegal under international law; to man the blockade, Britain pressed merchant sailors into the Royal Navy, Including Americans. American sentiment grew increasingly hostile toward Britain due to incidents such as the 1807 Chesapeake"Leopard affair, And the British were outraged by the 1811 Little Belt affair. [10] Britain supplied arms to Native Americans, Who raided European-American settlers on the American frontier, Hindering the expansion of the United States and provoking resentment. [11] Although the debate on whether the desire to annex some or all of British North America (Canada) contributed to the American decision to go to war, The reasoning for invasion was mainly strategical. [12] President James Madison signed into law the declaration of war after heavy pressure from the War Hawks in the United States Congress. [13] Federalist opposition to the War of 1812 in the United States affected its prosecution, Especially in New England, Where it was referred to as "Mr. Madison's War". With most of its army in Europe fighting Napoleon, Britain adopted a defensive strategy, With offensive operations initially limited to the border and the western frontier, With help from its Native American allies. American military defeats at the Siege of Detroit and the Battle of Queenston Heights thwarted attempts to seize Upper Canada, Improving British morale. American attempts to invade Lower Canada and capture Montreal also failed. [14] In 1813, The United States won the Battle of Lake Erie, Gaining control of the lake and defeating Tecumseh's Confederacy at the Battle of the Thames, Thereby defeating Britain's largest Native American ally, A primary war goal. The Americans made a final attempt to invade Canada, But the Battle of Lundy's Lane during the summer of 1814 was fought to a draw. At sea, The powerful Royal Navy blockaded American ports, Cutting off trade[15] and allowing the British to raid the coast at will. In 1814, The British burned Washington, But the Americans later repulsed British attempts to invade New York and Maryland, Ending invasions from Canada into the northern and mid-Atlantic states. In early 1815, After a peace treaty had been signed, But before this news had reached the Americas, The United States defeated the British Army near New Orleans, Louisiana. [16] Fighting also took place in West Florida, Where a two-day battle for the city of Pensacola ended in Spanish surrender. [17] In Britain, There was mounting opposition to wartime taxation and merchants lobbied for the resumption of trade with the United States. With the abdication of Napoleon, Britain's war with France ended and Britain stopped impressment generally. This made moot the issue of American sailor impressment and removed one of the original causes of the war. The British then increased the strength of their blockade of the United States coast which had a crippling effect on the American economy. [15][18] Peace negotiations began in August 1814 and the Treaty of Ghent was signed on 24 December 1814. The treaty was unanimously ratified by the United States Senate on 17 February 1815, Ending the war with no boundary changes[19][20] except for the disposition of some islands in Passamaquoddy Bay, An issue that was resolved after the war. [21] A popular view is that "[e]verybody's happy with the outcome of the war. Americans are happy because they think they won, The Canadians are happy because they know they won and avoided being swallowed up by the United States, And the British are happiest because they've forgotten all about it";[22] although indigenous nations are generally seen among historians as the real losers. News of the peace finally reached the United States in February 1815, About the same time as news of the victory at New Orleans;[23] Americans triumphantly celebrated the restoration of their national honour, Leading to the collapse of anti-war sentiment and the beginning of the Era of Good Feelings, A period of national unity. [24] While Britain quickly forgot about the war, Nationalistic mythology around it took hold in both the United States and Upper Canada. Both the restoration of honour and the "Second War of Independence" are important themes in American historiography and are considered important results by historians. [25][26][27] The failure of the invasion of British Canada advanced the evolving concept of Canadian identity and of Canada as a distinct region that would continue to evolve into a nation.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-Change-is-a-real-issue/2/
  • PRO

    The ozone hole is just an area of the upper atmosphere...

    Climate Change is real and caused by humans and can/should be stopped!

    I hope you are joking, "I have seen many a great things, inspirational things, miracles even, BUT never have I seen evidence of an Ozone layer." The ozone layer is not a literal sheet/dome of ozone covering the entire planet it is just huge quantities of Ozone (O3) in the upper atmosphere. The ozone holes are more of areas with less ozone, much less, so much less in fact that it does seem to be a whole in the ozone protection from UV and ionizing rays! We are able to get a hole as ozone is near the top of the atmosphere, not much is above it, and of course sinks down into that hole, therefore you are right it's not a vacume in the atmosphere, its a hole, a void without ozone. Ozone is what protects the planet for a most part from harmful rays such as UV and ionising rays (Gamma and x-rays)! With the hole missing, half of the green house effect is put into place. These rays aren't just cancerous and dangerous in other ways to use, but they also heat up the surface of the planet, which normally if fine, NORMALLY when heat enters it just leaves, but green house gasses such as methane and carbon dioxide (which in small amounts are fine and needed, but we are pumping much more) block this extra heat/energy from the Sun from escaping back out into space! The ozone layer again as you seemed to not understand, is a layer of ozone (not only ozone) in the upper atmosphere, this ozone is in addition to what makes up the atmosphere, and this ozone usually stays in the upper atmosphere (on the rare occasian or it drops into the lower atmosphere or is created here, he get sick has it is poisonous to breath) along with the other ingredients in our atmosphere, helium, carbon dioxide, air, nitrogen..... The ozone hole is just an area of the upper atmosphere lacking ozone, which again is what protects the planet from much of the electromagnetic spectrum (light, including gamma and x-rays, UV and Infrared rays, Microwave and Radio waves). You said you have never "seen" this part of climate change, of course you don't do you see trees taking in CO2 and putting out Oxygen, NO, so it "must" not be true. The almighty, non-scientist nobody doesn't beleive it to be true, we must just take his word for it! The ozone hole is over the southern pole, so if you were in Antarctica right now you would likely feel the rays, as in you would get sun burns and a tan (yes even in the arctic as long as there is sun and rays, you would also likely get skin cancer after a couple years of exposure, why don't you test your theory out that it doesn't exist, maybe you can prove skin cancer to be a myth made by those evil athiests too). You asked how do we know that the climate is changing at a un-natural rate, good question, this held us back from acting on climate change for a long while, until we figured out the answer. We know that the planet's temerature has changed over thousands and millions of years, ice ages are proof of this (we know those happened due to glacier fossils which cover the earth meaning that the temp would of had to be much lower), and there have been times in history where we beleive it was so hot that the poles melted completely, but all of these events happened over hundreds of thousands if not millions of years (ice ages being the exeption, they happened over a number of thousands of years). We know that the Earth's temperature hasn't been changing in the past due to the effects that climate change has on weather, el nino (a storm caused by disrutption of wind currents, caused by climate change) has only came to exist in the last 20 years and is definetly caused by climate change. You do not understand that this is a debate on climate change and not evoultion. Also you talked about extintion, extintion does not prove evolution false, animals die when things like you said happen, but when effects take place over long periods of time such as a forest eroding into a savanna or desert, the best of the species living there will survive and pass on their traits over and over again the best wills survive passing on the best traits to survive their changing habitat, if they don't change fast enough they die, like you said, but often they aren't faced with such imiediet threats! An example of evolution is tictalic, the ancestor of all land vertebrates. The tictalic species evolved slowly overtime, fins that were able to push themselves up out of the water, this happened as the members of the species with the strongest fins would pass on there genes and the ones with weaker fins would die out. These fins over thousands of years would get so strong they could act as primitive arms that drag tictalic onto land to escape predators. The air bladder of the fish evolved to act as a single lung and this way, over time through many mutations that helped the species survive, they evolved legs, then they got bigger, spread out across the planet, and the species we have today evolved. WHAT THE F*CK IS WRONG WITH YOU DONT PUT SO MUCH FAITH IN YOUR LORD WHICH HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN YET THE ONLY PROOF THERE IS FOR A GOD IS THAT SOME THINGS CANT BE EXPLAINED WITH OUR CURRENT TECHNOLOGY, DONT EXPECT SOMEONE TO SAVE THE PLANET (GOD) ONCE YOU SCREW IT UP BY EXPECTING IT TO BE SAVED, WITH THE IDEA THAT SPECIES WILL CARE FOR THEMSELVES, OUR ENTIRE PLANETS ECOSYSTEM WILL COLAPSE AND GOD WONT BE THERE TO SAVE IT, IF HE IS REAL HE WOULD NOT HELP SOMEONE WHO ISNT HELPING THEMSELVES HE IS NOT YOUR MOTHER!

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-Change-is-real-and-caused-by-humans-and-can-should-be-stopped/1/
  • PRO

    If you want me to have burden of proof sure, 51% for me...

    Donald Trump thinks climate change is a hoax.

    Thank you for accepting the debate. If you want me to have burden of proof sure, 51% for me versus 49% for you burden of proof. In your own link there If you want me to have burden of proof sure, 51% for me versus 49% for you burden of proof. In your own link there is further proof that Donald Trump is not a believer in climate change and thus thinks its a hoax. "Trump, who is now the GOP"s presumptive nominee, has said he"s "not a big believer" in man-made climate change, and has vowed to eliminate the Environmental Protection Agency if elected president. " [2] Vowing to eliminate the EPA? Come on this proves that Donald Trump believe climate change is a hoax. 2. http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Donald-Trump-thinks-climate-change-is-a-hoax./1/
  • PRO

    Common definitions are assumed, unless otherwise stated...

    Anthropogenic global climate change.

    I will contend that anthropegenic global climate change exists. The contender will contend that anthropegenic global climate change is non-existent. Structure R1 Acceptance & definitions R2 Arguments R3 Rebuttals R4 Defense Burden of proof Burden of proof will be shared equally. This is because I am making the affrimative claim and the instiagator, yet am arguing for what is normally accepted in the scientific community. Therefore, the burdens of proof cancel each other out resulting in neutral 50/50 burden of proof. Further explanation of r1 setup. First round is just for acceptance and definitions if need be. Common definitions are assumed, unless otherwise stated and agreed upon. Anthropogenic " Caused by humans" [1] Round two each person will make their argument, but no direct responses to the other person's argument. Focus on making a convincing argument that if not for your opponent's rebuttal would sell your audience. This is the only round to make new arguments for your case. Round three each person will respond directly to their opponent's round two argument pointing out any logical fallacies and attempt to find flaws. Round four each person defends their round two argument against their opponent's round three argument. For example if I say that is a cherry picking fallacy as a rebuttal in round three against my opponent round two argument, my opponent would explain in round four as a defense why me calling their argument a cherry picking fallacy is incorrect. Thank you in advance for accepting the debate. Previous debate for reference. [0] Try to stick to the structure please, makes it much easier for voters to follow the debate. Sources. 0. http://www.debate.org... 1. http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Anthropogenic-global-climate-change./2/
  • PRO

    First round is just for acceptance and definitions if...

    Anthropogenic climate change.

    I will contend that anthropegenic climate change exists. The contender will contend that anthropegenic climate change is non-existent. Structure R1 Acceptance & definitions R2 Arguments R3 Rebuttals R4 Defense Burden of proof Burden of proof will be shared equally. This is because I am making the affrimative claim and the instiagator, yet am arguing for what is normally accepted in the scientific community. Therefore, the burdens of proof cancel each other out resulting in neutral 50/50 burden of proof. Further explanation of r1 setup. First round is just for acceptance and definitions if need be. Common definitions are assumed, unless otherwise stated and agreed upon. Round two each person will make their argument, but no direct responses to the other person' argument. Focus on making a convincing argument that if not for your opponent's rebuttal would sell your audience. This is the only round to make new arguments for your case. Round three each person will respond directly to their opponent's round two argument pointing out any logical fallacies and attempt to find flaws. Round four each person defends their round argument against their opponent's round three argument. For example if I say that Common definitions are assumed, unless otherwise stated and agreed upon. Round two each person will make their argument, but no direct responses to the other person' argument. Focus on making a convincing argument that if not for your opponent's rebuttal would sell your audience. This is the only round to make new arguments for your case. Round three each person will respond directly to their opponent's round two argument pointing out any logical fallacies and attempt to find flaws. Round four each person defends their round argument against their opponent's round three argument. For example if I say that is a cherry picking fallacy in round two, my opponent would explain why me calling their argument a cherry picking fallacy is incorrect. Thank you in advance for accepting the debate.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Anthropogenic-climate-change./3/
  • PRO

    Everything is predetermined unless humanity DOES have a...

    Human-Caused Climate Change is Impossible

    "There was never plastic before humans arrived - is that not a new variable? Emissions from gas-powered vehicles have never been around until we invented them, Is that not a new variable? " You and everyone else who debates this topic insists that humanity has a separate and individualized existence, Apart from it's prerequisite form. . And you fail to see how this stance is actually an argument for MY side. Plastic never would have existed without humans, Humans never would have existed without the Earth, Therefore Plastic would never have existed without the Earth. Any human activity. . . From the invention of plastic, To the utilization of fossil fuels, To the catastrophic change in Climate conditions is all a naturally occurring process of the Earth's evolution. Everything is predetermined unless humanity DOES have a separate and individualized existence, Which IS apart from the prerequisite form which resulted in it's existence (assumedly). "Then you say we ARE a foreign entity. Even if I don't agree with you, You've already destroyed your own argument. " This Even if I don't agree with you, You've already destroyed your own argument. " This is the whole point of my debate. I'm showing "Human Caused Climate Change" proponents how it is impossible for them to believe in purely "Human Caused Climate Change" unless those proponents acknowledge the necessity for humanity to be an unnatural, Foreign, And separate entity within the Universe. Science and Mathematics do not make mistakes. They are inherent laws of nature that are DISCOVERED by humanity, Not invented. They exist as a latticework of spacetime laws irrespective of Human presence. Prior to the introduction of humanity the Universe was a sterile, Predetermined scientific process. Humanity changed that. Pardon me for utilizing the fish hook.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Human-Caused-Climate-Change-is-Impossible/1/
  • PRO

    As solar activity decreases, cosmic ray penetration will...

    Climate Change Is Not an Imminent Danger

    I would like to thank Citrakayah for this great debate. I. Natural Factors Point to Little or No Change in Climate I.A. The Sun My opponent claims that solar activity has diverged from temperatures since the 1980s. He, however, is making an incorrect conclusion. Between raw solar activity (solar irradiance) and temperature, temperature lags about 7.5-10 years behind solar irradiance because of the heat capacity of the oceans. A better representation of the sun/temperature correlation is the length of the solar cycle. "This new parameter not only indicated a remarkably high correlation coefficient between solar activity and temperature (on the order of 0.95), but it also eliminated the problem of the 7-year lag encountered by Reid."[1][2][3] When looking at all of how the sun affects the climate: "For example, the authors of a paper by NASA's JPL remark '...has compared the minimum aa [index of geomagnetic activity] values with the Earth's surface temperature record and found a correlation of 0.95 between the two data sets starting in 1885. The solar irradiance [solar activity] proxy developed from the aa minima continues to track the Earth's surface temperature until the present.'"[4][5] In other words, using the better formulation produces an almost perfect correlation between solar activity and temperature. "If the Scafetta and West analysis used the uncontaminated satellite data since 1980, the results would show that the Sun has contributed at least 75% of the global warming of the last century."[6][7] That is at least how much the sun has contributed to recent warming. I.A.1 Solar Flux Predictions "From all that, for Solheim’s predicted temperature decline of 0.9º C over the whole of Solar Cycle 24 to be achieved, the decline from mid-2013 will be 1.2º C on average over the then remaining twelve and a half years of the cycle. No doubt the cooling will be back-loaded, making the further decline predicted over Solar Cycle 25 relative to Solar Cycle 24 more readily achievable."[8] Solar activity is expected to decline, and as a result of that, so is temperature. I.A.2. Cosmic Ray Flux Cosmic rays cause cloud formation: "Preliminary results show that these faux cosmic rays indeed have an effect on the atmosphere: When high energy protons stream in, production of nanometer-sized particles in the atmosphere increases by more than ten times."[9] More clouds causes global cooling: "Cloud cover has decreased over the past 39 years globally, and temperatures have risen during that time. This global decrease in cloud cover alone could account for all surface warming observed since the 1970s."[10] The change in cloudiness corresponds to the change in climate: "A scarcity of muons can be linked to elevated global temperatures by a reduction in low cloud cover and low cloudiness was indeed at a minimum around 1992-93."[11][12] Cosmic rays cause cloud formation which cools the planet. As solar activity decreases, cosmic ray penetration will increase, thereby increasing cloud formation and cooling the planet. I.A.3. Ocean Currents It is when we look at the oceans that we see a clearer pattern between solar activity and temperature. Because the oceans have an enormous heat storage capacity, it takes several years for a warming of the oceans to be transmitted to the surface (hence the 8 year lag in solar activity and air temperatures). Solar activity and ocean currents correlate directly.[13] "Current research also shows that Earth's oceans are now beginning to cool. It is also now clear that temperatures over the last century correlate far better with cycles in oceans than they do with carbon dioxide; and, the temperature cycles in oceans are caused by cycles of the sun."[14] The oceans have already flipped into a cool cycle, as I mentioned, because of the decrease in solar activity. I.B. The 1500-Year Cycle These are global events. Take, for example, the Medieval Warm Period. Various temperature estimates say that locations as far flung as Greenland, Africa, New Zealand, and South America reported temperatures 1-4 degrees C above their current temperatures. Not only is the Medieval Warming seen. A Vostok Glacier ice core revealed the 1500 year cycle over 400,000 years, and correlates with glacial movement all over the globe, and at the same time. The same goes with seabed data.[15] Overall, "Based on this, the Earth is about 150 years into a moderate Modern Warming that will last a few centuries longer. It will essentially restore the fine climate of the Medieval Climate Optimum.”[15] This cycle coincidences with the increase in temperature. II. Positive Effects of the Current Interglacial and Warm Period II.A. Health Benefits Actually, "The only global study suggests that this is true internationally: by 2050, there will be almost 400,000 more heat-related deaths a year, and almost 1.8 million fewer cold-related deaths. Warmer temperatures will save 1.4 million lives each year. The number of saved lives will outweigh the increase in heat-related deaths until at least 2200."[16] Yes, while it is easier to make fire than an air conditioner, heat is, overall, better for the body than cold (to a point). People in the Middle East are healthier (when controlled, that is) than people in, say, Siberia. What my opponent cites is not an increase in deaths from warming per se, but in temperature variability: "The claim that warming increases morbidity rates is a myth. This isn't the case, according to Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, an environmental economist from Yale University. Mendelsohn argues that heat-stress deaths are caused by temperature variability and not warming. Those deaths grow in number not as climates warm but as the variability in climate increases."[17] Overall, if temperatures rose 2.5 degrees Celsius, deaths in the United States from respiratory diseases such as pneumonia and influenza, diseases of the circulatory system and even infectious diseases would drop by about 40,000 per year. Warming might reduce medical costs by about $20 billion annually.[18][19] II.B. Economic Benefits Con­sequently, the more CO2 there is in the air, the better plants grow, as has been demonstrated in literally thousands of laboratory and field experiments. As a result, the amount of carbon gained per unit of water lost per unit leaf area —or water-use efficiency—increases dramatically as the air’s CO2 content rises; and this phenomenon has been well documented in CO2 enrichment experiments with agricultural crops. In addition, CO2 concentration increases make plants hardier against dangers such as UV radiation and soil salinity. And finally, health promoting substances found in various food crops and medicinal plants have been shown to benefit from rising atmospheric CO2.[20] (Other sources to studies in that link) Overall, increased CO2 concentrations help plants a lot more than hurt them. Plants feed on CO2, and more of it should make plants better. Conclusion This is a version of next century’s climate forecast using the information I provided: Built in cooling trend until at least 2024 Temperature Hadsst3 moving average anomaly 2035 - 0.15 Temperature Hadsst3 moving average anomaly 2100 – 0.5 General Conclusion – by 2100 all the 20th century temperature rise will have been reversed.[21][22] The next few centuries should see temperatures go up slightly, albeit with fluctuations in between by the climate contributors I provided. Health effects should be positive as a slight warming and increased CO2 concentrations increase agricultural production and optimal plant temperature (corresponding to the slight increase in temperatures). Climate change is not an imminent danger. Sources Various reference charts and graphs may be found here: http://www.debate.org... in any of the sources in my link below. http://tny.cz...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-Change-Is-Not-an-Imminent-Danger/2/
  • PRO

    However, as discussed in the video below by Peter...

    Manmade global climate change is real and a threat.

    First, I would like to thank my opponent for debating this topic with me in a respectful manner. Courage is needed to go against the majority. Second, I would like to note my opponent's response is very dense. To disprove my opponent's arguments I need to take my opponent's statements a few sentences at a time. "Your first argument, "Carbon dioxide is at 404.48 parts per million and the temperature has increased 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit since 1880." That is not a scientific argument. It is a correlation. There is no REAL evidence to suggest that Co2 impact temperature." rammer5678 Yes, you are correct as presented it is a correlation. I will now show that there is causation. ""When the Earth comes out of an ice age, the warming is not initiated by CO2 but by changes in the Earth's orbit. The warming causes the oceans to release CO2. The CO2 amplifies the warming and mixes through the atmosphere, spreading warming throughout the planet. So CO2 causes warming AND rising temperature causes CO2 rise. Overall, about 90% of the global warming occurs after the CO2 increase."" [2] There should be no doubt that CO2 causes global warming. "Especially when 25% of all Co2 produced by man has been released in the last 20 years and in that time there has been NO NET WARMING!!!" rammer5678 All caps always helps prove science. Temperatures have risen. In 2005, 2010, 2014, and 2015 were hotter than 1998. "Even if we ignore long term trends and just look at the record-breakers, 2015, 2014, 2010, and 2005 were hotter than 1998. The myth of no warming since 1998 was based on the satellite record estimates of the temperature of the atmosphere. However, as discussed in the video below by Peter Sinclair, even that argument is no longer accurate. The satellites show warming since 1998 too." [3] Temperatures have risen in the last twenty years. "You also make it sound like 1.4 degrees is what was predicted by the models showing Co2 causing temperature. I wasn't." rammer5678 You are correct that not all the models were correct. The overall premise is correct that the planet is getting warmer due to CO2. As for your link from wattsupwiththat.com, this is a known climate change denial site. The site is run by Willard Anthony Watts. He is a paid AGW denier, Anthropogenic Global Warming denier. "Willard Anthony Watts (Anthony Watts) is a blogger, weathercaster and non-scientist, paid AGW denier who runs the website wattsupwiththat.com. He does not have a university qualification and has no climate credentials other than being a radio weather announcer. His website is parodied and debunked at the website wottsupwiththat.com Watts is on the payroll of the Heartland Institute, which itself is funded by polluting industries.[1]" [4] Your source is not credible. Voters please give me the more credible source points if nothing else. "You make a reference to cigarette companies. Please remember that we are talking about Man Made Global Warming, not cigarettes. Keep your own habits to yourself." rammer5678 Yes, this is true. Nevertheless this should impact the resolution since it shows historical evidence of how malice and greed can hold science at bay. Cigarette companies show the depths that people will sink to. "Al Gores, "The Inconvenient Truth" predicted that all the arctic ice caps would be melted by 2013. In case you haven't noticed, the ice caps are still there. He also predicted the polar bears would all have died out by now. That hasn't happened." Rammer5678 Not every prediction in the Inconvenient Truth came true. Nevertheless polar bears are struggling and many ice caps are melting. [5] As for the polar bears this is due to hunting restrictions and bans. " The introduction of the International Agreement on the Conservation of Polar Bears in 1973, which restricted or even banned hunting in some circumstances, consequently resulted in an increase in polar bear numbers." [6] As you can see, I've destroyed all your arguments while proving causation of CO2 to increase temperature. A few notes, the polar bears are still in danger in the long term. [7] The ice caps melting has provided less hunting ground for them. You also make some inflammatory remarks like Al Gore's documentary was riddled with lies. Many of the predictions have come true. Also, there is a large difference between a falsehood and a lie. The models could not take in every single factor. As time prorgresses we get more and more accurate models. You have provided no evidence that the documentary was manpiulated. A person with the best of intentions can come to the wrong conclusion. Thanks for debating. You are making me work for victory. Sources. 2. http://www.skepticalscience.com... 3. http://www.skepticalscience.com... 4. http://www.sourcewatch.org... 5. http://www.nasa.gov... 6. https://www.skepticalscience.com... 7. http://www.nytimes.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Manmade-global-climate-change-is-real-and-a-threat./8/

CON

  • CON

    My opponent stated that "First and foremost, my opponent...

    Manmade global climate change is real and a threat.

    My opponent stated that "First and foremost, my opponent has dropped the issue of the Inconvenient truth documentary" However, my entire case has been in contradiction to the inconvenient truth documentary, as seen when my opponent states "scientific evidence clearly backs up this claim in the documentary an inconvenient truth", I have offered scientific in direct contradiction to the scientific evidence in the movie, thus I have negated my opponent's ENTIRE argument. " As for the Pope's contribution, this shows just how much climate change deniers are within the minority." Seeing as my opponent likes to spew out the term "fallacy", I will spew out the term band wagon fallacy which this argument is, because The bandwagon fallacy is committed by arguments that appeal to the growing popularity of an idea as a reason for accepting it as true. My opponent has admitted to doing this by sating that "climate change deniers are within the minority" In my opponent's (rather short) rebuttal he said that I was cherry picking again (in my first argument) He did show that I chose a time fame that best suits me, but that time frame that best suits me shows a DIRECT INDEPENDENCE between oil consumption and CO2 in the atmosphere. This isn't cherry picking because I didn't just show a single year or two of independence I showed an entire decade of data. Not only this, but in my 3rd graph (on my first argument) I showed how CO2 levels has been extremely higher than we've ever seen in humanity's history (in some cases over 8000 PPM well before the industrial revolution). Once again I showed independence between ATMOSPHERIC CO2 and Fossil Fuel Consumption. My opponent doesn't seem to understand my argument that ATMOSPHERIC CO2 has no direct relationship to fossil fuel consumption, he lists the obvious fact that CO2 is released by the burning of fossil fuels, but shows no explanation to why an entire decade (and more) of data shows no relation between fossil fuel consumption and atmospheric CO2, in fact he drops the point in his second argument when he says he cannot explain why this statistic occurred. My opponent's second rebuttal states "My opponent seems to miss the original claim he/she made. I have shown that the overall trend is upwards. El nino was particularly potent in the spike of the graph." I haven't forgotten any claims that I have made, however my opponent has not shown anything contrary to my original claim, his only counter argument negates his entire argument when my opponent blames the spike in temperature on El Nino, a climate feature unrelated to Global Warming. But again even I admitted there was a slight warming trend since 1978, but if the El Nino spike is removed from the data the trend disappears, so my opponent admits that Global Warming is not the cause of the temperature since 1978. My opponent's third rebuttal states "The overall tend is hotter. Climate can be difficult to predict, just because not everything predicted came true at the correct time, doesn't destroy the overall premise is false." However I have shown 3 different examples of a lack of an overall warming trend. My first example being my 1st chart on my first argument, which shows that GLOBALLY the overall warming trend (that there is) is "statistically insignificant" (since 1978). My second example shows that in the US temperatures are cooling over the last decade. My third example shows that in the North and East Atlantic Ocean, as well as, the British Isles have not experienced any warming. My opponent's fourth rebuttal states "The graph clearly indicates that Co2 and temperature show a strong positive relationship. Yes, there are a few anomalies but that doesn't discredit the theory." My opponent has offered one singular graph showing a relationship between CO2 and temperature. However, I have pointed out that there are events on his graph that shows an independence between the two variables, on top of this, I have offered TWICE as much evidence in the contrary, which my opponent has neglected to mention, showing independence between the two variables even over millions of years. Again I'd like to crystalize my arguments 1: Fossil Fuels do not cause an increase in CO2 emissions, which makes the first part of the IPCC's basic version of global warming invalid My opponent has not other a sufficient refutation for this argument, because this point refutes the definition of Global Warming, it proves that, as we are debating it, Global Warming is not real and thus not a threat. 2: Despite common belief the last few years have not been the warmest on record... My opponent calls this point "cherry picking" however as I have proven, this is not true, and because my opponent has not offered contrary evidence and because of that this point still stands 3: Antarctic Ice was larger than ever in 2012 and 2014, thus the Antarctic Ice caps have not been melting which is thought to be a sideffect of the Global Warming theory My opponent's first reputation was to say that the ice caps would not melt if Global Warming occurred, however I have shown that this is false, then my opponent made a refutation that is not in contradiction to anything that I stated, so this point still stands. 4: There is no direct link between CO2 Emissions and Temperature Increases My opponent has neglected to mention either of my graphs and my opponent's evidence has been refuted making this point still relevant in this debate. Now I'd like to show why I have won this debate My opponent's arguments have been proven false or a fallacy. My opponent's first "point" is the pope's quote which I've shown to be worth no value to this debate, and I have proven it to be a bandwagon fallacy. My opponent's second point is the Inconvenient Truth Movie which posits scientific evidence for the theory of Global Warming, However, my entire case is in direct contradiction to this movie and acts as counter evidence and a rebuttal to the movie. So, because both of my opponent's arguments have been proven wrong, and my opponent's refutations have been untrue and unfounded, and I have proven them to be so, Thus, I have won this debate... Judges must vote in favor of the Con because of the overwhelming amount of evidence presented and the lack of evidence for my opponent. I'd like to thank my opponent for this fun and enlightening debate.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Manmade-global-climate-change-is-real-and-a-threat./4/
  • CON

    Where will we be in 50 or 100 years if we fail to take...

    Nations should work to prepare for climate change instead of preventing it.

    No one is denying that climate change is upon us. The present effects of global warming and other forms of climate change are well documented. As we see it, the people of the world have two choices: --shore up our defenses against the worst effects of climate change and hope that we won"t eventually be incapable of coping with the rising seas, floods, droughts, disease, etc. that are even now threatening communities on every continent, or --focus our energies and resources on preventing further climate change damage to mitigate the impact on humanity and planet. Given the ominous fact that there is nothing that can be done to immediately halt and reverse the effects of climate change, humans need to take the long view. Where will we be in 50 or 100 years if we fail to take steps now to prevent even greater climate change? The effects we are feeling now are so threatening to human health and the ecosystems we depend upon that it is inconceivable we could survive many generations at the current rate of damage. The alternative to real and concerted prevention of further climate change, is to accept a future in which the people of Earth who are not killed by heat waves, mosquito-born diseases, floods, famines and the other inevitable effects of global warming find themselves fighting over the few verdant patches of land high enough to escape seas that have risen [find stat] feet once the polar ice caps have melted completely. The preparation position is a fatalistic one. It accepts the eventual demise of humankind. The only viable position is the prevention of further climate change in hopes of reestablishing ecological balance in the world. No amount of raising levees, recycling water, or distributing mosquito nets will be sufficient over time to save our race and the world from the climate change damage we have put in motion. Given a choice between preparing for the worst, and attempting to prevent the worst--humanity"s best hope lies in prevention. We must do everything we can, starting now, to halt the shameful dependence on fossil fuels, the destruction of tropical rainforests, and pumping of hydrocarbons into the air.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Nations-should-work-to-prepare-for-climate-change-instead-of-preventing-it./1/
  • CON

    The ice age was only a blink in time ago, and man didn't...

    The big lie of climate change

    The myth of climate change is nothing but a lie dreamed up by the elite politicians in order to strike fear into poorer, more gullible nations in order to reduce the capabilities and wealth of the western world and to transfer that wealth to their minions in the poorer countries. The climate has always changed on this planet, many times quite rapidly, and with no influence by humans. The ice age was only a blink in time ago, and man didn't cause it and man didn't fix it, just as now, although the globalist elites would have us believe otherwise. The fact is that hydrocarbon fuels are a finite resource and we do need to find better options, but CO2 is not a harmful gas, it is actually just plant food, which is good. If you watched An Inconvenient Truth, starring Al "King of UN Capitalists" Gore, and believed the lies about AGW then you are just a minion of the UN Agenda 21 machine, or you are looking to capitalize on the fear created by such a blatant propagandist production.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/The-big-lie-of-climate-change/1/
  • CON

    Here is a graph showing relative humidity over the last...

    That Humans Are Causing Climate Change

    My opponent has not made a single argument for his position or a refutation of my arguments. His entire argument in round 3 is a source war (when the debate revolves around the number of sources each debater can put forth). Not only does it not satisfy his burden of proof, it is no way to argue. In this argument, I will first consider his introductory points, then proceed to refute the relevant arguments he made from his first argument, and finally show how his source war does not prove his point, especially on scientific topics. My opponent has not shown how his arguments are relevant, as he hasn't addressed my arguments as to how they aren't relevant. Also, from the resolution and the arguments you have put forth, you have been arguing that humans have been a significant, if not the main cause of the modern global warming. I've been showing how they're not. Refutations Climate Models Climate models are far from perfect. In fact, they have consistently overestimated warming. "The computer models predict that the 20th century temperatures should have increased by 1.6 to 3.74 Celsius, while the actual observed 20th-century temperature increase was about 0.6 Celsius. A model that fails to history match is useless for predicting the future."[1] Here is a graph showing various climate model predictions to actual temperatures: "The IPCC models projected the global 17-year SST trend ending August 2011 at 0.15 C/decade, but the observed rise was only 0.02 C/decade... The quoted error on a single measurement is 0.05 C. The probability that the IPCC projections overstate the warming in greater than 90%." I could go on more about this, but since my opponent has provided no proof of the validity of climate models, this will suffice.[1] To conclude, here is a prediction made by a climate model: Built in cooling trend until at least 2024 Temperature Hadsst3 moving average anomaly 2035 - 0.15 Temperature Hadsst3 moving average anomaly 2100 " 0.5 General Conclusion " by 2100 all the 20th century temperature rise will have been reversed.[2] Why should we believe the models that predict excessive warming instead of models that predict a decrease in temperatures. Water Vapor Feedback Once again, the predictions to not match up with the observations. The feedback predicts relative humidity to remain constant so that the atmosphere can hold more water vapor with increased temperatures. However, humidity has actually fallen. This doesn't only negate the supposed positive feedback, but if the decrease is large enough, it may actually become a negative feedback. Here is a graph showing relative humidity over the last 60 years: "This shows that the actual water vapor content in the upper troposphere has declined by 13.7% (best fit line) from 1948 to 2012 at the 400 mb pressure level. The climate models predict that humidity will increase in the upper troposphere, but the data shows a large decrease; just where water vapor changes have the greatest effect on global temperatures."[1] Ocean Acidification Actually, claims of ocean acidification have been greatly exaggerated and misinterpreted. The mean drop in pH levels as a result of CO2 increases is around 0.3, but the sea can experience changes of almost 1.4 in as little as just a day. "On a monthly scale the pH varies by 0.024 to 1.430 pH units.""At Puerto Morelos (in Mexico"s easternmost state, on the Yucat"n Peninsula) the pH varied as much as 0.3 units per hour due to groundwater springs.""Even the more stable and vast open ocean is not a fixed pH all year round. Hofmann writes that 'Open-water areas (in the Southern Ocean) experience a strong seasonal shift in seawater pH (~0.3"0.5 units) between austral summer and winter.'"[3][4] This is the paper's hypothesis: "This natural variability has prompted the suggestion that an appropriate null hypothesis may be, until evidence is obtained to the contrary, that major biogeochemical processes in the oceans other than calcification will not be fundamentally different under future higher CO2/lower pH conditions"[3][4] The Consensus This argument has employed by pro in both his first argument as an argument, and in this round to support his position. However, both instances commit both a fallacy and a gross inaccuracy. First, the fallacy. Science does not work by consensus. The number of researchers or organizations has little bearing on whether what they believe is actually true. Michael Crichton has said, "Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus." My opponent has said that petroleum companies supporting climate change deniers is a conflict of interest, but so are governmental organizations, because legislators want them to provide information that will support the legislation will support. Politics in science hardly makes for objective conclusions.[1] Even so, the consensus doesn't even exist in the first place. Over 31,000 scientists (with at least a Bachelors' degree in relevant fields) have signed a petition saying that global warming is not anthropogenic. The Heartland Institute has conducted an international survey of 530 climate scientists in 2003. The survey asked if the current state of scientific knowledge is developed well enough to allow for a reasonable assessment of the effects of greenhouse gases. Two-thirds of the scientists surveyed (65.9 percent) disagreed with the statement, with nearly half (45.7 percent) scoring it with a 1 or 2, indicating strong disagreement. Only 10.9 percent scored it with a 6 or 7, indicating strong agreement. Most of the organizations my opponent lists are governmental, meaning that they have that conflict of interest I mentioned earlier.[5][6] The graphs my opponent provides are either irrelevant, are refuted by my argument against the consensus above, or show a rough correlation between CO2 and temperature that I have already shown to not exist. It is also relevant to note that the r^2 correlation between CO2 and temperature over the last century is only 0.44, which is considered poor.[7] Also, as for the other greenhouse gases, my opponent has not argued for them specifically, concentrating on CO2 in his arguments. Regardless, I will simply refer to my fourth argument in the last round on greenhouse gas absorption. Methane has an absorption band (at 8 micrometres) that largely overlaps with water vapor, so an increase in methane has little effect on temperature. In addition to methane, the wavelengths of light that nitrous oxide absorb largely overlap with that of water vapor, so an increase in nitrous oxide also has little effect on temperature. Those are the main greenhouse gases. I will address these more if my opponent considers them any more than he has.[1] Conclusion My opponent's entire argument in this round is a fallacious attempt to make his position seem valid when he can't refute the arguments I made in the first round. Again, science does not work by consensus, and even so, there really is no "consensus". Pro has never gotten near satisfying his BoP that humans are causing climate change. Sources [1]: http://www.friendsofscience.org... [2]: http://wattsupwiththat.com... [3]: http://www.plosone.org... [4]: http://wattsupwiththat.com... [5]: http://www.petitionproject.org... [6]: http://heartland.org... [7]: http://wattsupwiththat.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/That-Humans-Are-Causing-Climate-Change/1/
  • CON

    I have to clarify some things, because I don"t think we...

    Climate Change is man caused

    Thank you for clarifying on that. I think you were hoping to win the debate just on that title, which in itself speaks indefinitely. I have to clarify some things, because I don"t think we have a debate here. First, the title is plain wrong. Climate change happens regardless of human activity. It "can be explained by natural causes, such as changes in solar energy, volcanic eruptions, and natural changes in greenhouse gas (GHG) concentrations." (the same EPA source as my opponent). The last time CO2 levels were as high as today, it was around 15 million years ago. During that time, species still thrived. Second, burning fossil fuels is the most cost-effective, and the least damaging. Yes, I said least damaging. I won"t get into how because that is not the subject of our debate. Here are just a few: [2] http://news.nationalgeographic.com... [3] http://www.newscientist.com... Long gone is the time when most scientists scratched their heads about ice caps melting. Yes, 2014 is the hottest year. Yes, I have to clarify some things, because I don"t think we have a debate here. First, the title is plain wrong. Climate change happens regardless of human activity. It "can be explained by natural causes, such as changes in solar energy, volcanic eruptions, and natural changes in greenhouse gas (GHG) concentrations." (the same EPA source as my opponent). The last time CO2 levels were as high as today, it was around 15 million years ago. During that time, species still thrived. Second, burning fossil fuels is the most cost-effective, and the least damaging. Yes, I said least damaging. I won"t get into how because that is not the subject of our debate. Here are just a few: [2] http://news.nationalgeographic.com... [3] http://www.newscientist.com... Long gone is the time when most scientists scratched their heads about ice caps melting. Yes, 2014 is the hottest year. Yes, climate change is happening. But at the same time, we are putting planks for a global cooling, in a sense. As of right now, I can safely say we are utilizing more renewable energy than at any other time in our existence. As for my opponents sources, I don"t see any of them mentioning that. I"m sorry, but the subject of your sources (yubanet, epa, time, scientific american) either state what global warming is, or are in redundant in stating "2014 is the hottest year". None of them are the subject of human activity causing global warming. If you still insist of debating the topic, I would be glad to, although as I"ve mentioned, there really is no debate.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-Change-is-man-caused/1/
  • CON

    First I would like to thank my opponent for the...

    Man Made Climate Change Is Fake

    First I would like to thank my opponent for the opportunity for this debate, I would like to start by making a few observations: 1) I am arguing that the human race has had a measurable impact on global warming. I acknowledge that natural climate change does happen. I will debate that humans are contributing to recent global warming. 2) My opponent says that quoting a consensus is not science. However, it has to be seen that a scientific study by real scientists is going to be more reliable than some kind of theory or home conducted experiment. Before we begin I would just like to ask for evidence behind the claims in point 3 just for reference. I will begin by analyzing my opponents case and then move on to my own. My opponents 1st point states that there is no hard proof that CO2 from humans is the most important part to causing global warming. Even if it's not the MOST important part, if humans have any impact than we are changing the climate from what is natural. I will provide empirical evidence that in fact it has a huge impact if not the biggest. 2: My opponent argues that the computer models don't work. Even if this is true, there is other evidence that proves CO2 does have an impact. Also, computer models are just a way of prediction and we can't expect them to be 100% correct. 3: My opponent argued that CO2 is a weak greenhouse gas. My opponent argues that water vapor has a stronger green house effect. Even if this is true, adding CO2 to the atmosphere is actually a cause for more humid atmosphere making it worse. So even if you believe my opponent that it is actually the water vapor that is the more disastrous greenhouse gas, this problem stems from CO2 also, which stems from humans. http://www.nasa.gov... Basically my opponent is stating we would need more CO2 to see an impact which is not a scientific claim and there is an undoubted correlation between CO2 and warming. 4: In response to my opponents claim that their is less CO2 now than ever before, according to Freedman at climate central, "CO2 levels are far higher now than they have been for anytime during the past 800,000 years." http://www.climatecentral.org... Also, from NASA. "atmospheric carbon dioxide does naturally fluctuate, but it's never been has high as it is today" http://globalclimate.ucr.edu... (i would recommend looking at this graph for the link provided! 5: Your statement about the temperature increasing for the past 20,000 years is true, however that was when the last severe cold stage in the climate happened. So naturally the climate is on its way to being warmer. Today though, we are seeing this clearly attributed to CO2 in the air from humans as the temperature goes beyond what would be seen as natural. As for the political arguments. That is probably all true, but does not prove that humans don't have to do with global warming. Now for my case: 1: Humans are altering the climate. My evidence comes in 3 stages. 1: My opponent has acknowledged that CO2 is a green house gas. Green house gasses cause global warming. 2: humans are netting 15 gigatons of carbon into the atmosphere that has no place in the carbon cycle. Prior to industry all carbon fit into the cycle. https://www.newscientist.com... 3: If CO2 causes warming, and humans are omitting extra CO2 that we are having an impact on climate. Thus I hold my claim that humans are impacting climate change. Some may still remain skeptical in believing that there are things that may not be CO2 causing global warming. While other causes like volcanic eruptions, or the tilt of the earth have had causes thousands of year ago. We are seeing trends in the the atmoshphere that point to CO2 being the cause as opposed to thermal energy. Check out the video here. https://www.skepticalscience.com...

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Man-Made-Climate-Change-Is-Fake/1/
  • CON

    Dissent from CO2 theory is viewed by proponents as...

    Climate change

    We have agreed the global warming exists. I know of no scientist who dissents from CO2 theory that denies that global warming exists, although perhaps there is one somewhere. The idea that the claim of "no global warming" is common is nonsense thrown up by CO2 theorists for the purpose of claiming victory when they prove that global warming exists. It was never in dispute. Pro wonders how it can be that temperatures can be claimed to stable or even decreasing for the past decade while conceding that global warming exists. There is nothing mysterious, it depends upon the time scale. For example, the overall trend has been warming since the last ice age, decreasing since the Holocene Optimum, and increasing since the Little Ice Age. The last decade has been about stable. Pro apparently grants that the IPCC is 70% government bureaucrats, that the conclusions are not subject to peer review, and that the scientists involved to not get to vote on the report. Pro objects only that the scientist, Landsea, who resigned in protest only suspected political motivation but didn't actually observe it. Landsea's exact words were, "I am withdrawing because I have come to view the part of the IPCC to which my expertise is relevant as having become politicized." Landsea spelled it out separately: "The lead author of the fourth AR's chapter on climate observations, Kevin Trenberth, participated in a press conference that warned of increasing hurricane activity as a result of global warming. It is common to hear that man-made global warming represents the "consensus" of science, yet the use of hurricanes and cyclones as a marker of global warming represents a clear-cut case of the consensus being roundly ignored. Both the second and third IPCC assessments concluded that there was no global warming signal found in the hurricane record. Moreover, most climate models predict future warming will have only a small effect--if any--on hurricane strength. "It is beyond me," Landsea wrote, "why my colleagues would utilize the media to push an unsupported agenda that recent hurricane activity has been due to global warming."" http://www.aei.org... I never said the IPCC leadership had a secret agenda. They are sincere in their beliefs and aim to save the world by suppressing dissent. Look at the past scientific consensus that homosexuality was a form of mental illness, or that the Steady State Theory was correct. No doubt their were strong beliefs involved, but what ultimately won was the science. There is perhaps a thousand times as much money in supporting global warming as opposing it. Tens of billions billions flow from governments into the global warming industry every year. Al Gore alone has made $100 million off of it. If there is suspicion about motivation, it should be directed at advocates. Exxon puts about $1.5 million per year into dissent, which is nothing by comparison. Dissent from CO2 theory is viewed by proponents as heresy, which is why they make such a big deal about in being evil. The book "The Deniers" documents in detail the abuse levied upon anyone who does not toe the line. Dissenting scientists have absolutely impeccable credentials and publish regularly in peer-reviewed journals. Pro made a string of assertions about CO2, but he didn't make a single scientific reference in support of his assertions. In the previous round I provided a link to an article by a climate scientist that explained the weak dependence of temperature on CO2. In addition, "All of the IPCC climate models reduce low- and middle-altitude cloud cover with warming, a positive feedback. This is the main reason for the differences in warming produced by different climate models (Trenberth and Fasullo, 2009). I predict that this kind of model behavior will eventually be shown to be incorrect. And while the authors were loathe to admit it, there is already some evidence showing up in the peer-reviewed scientific literature that this is the case (Spencer et al., 2007; Caldwell and Bretherton, 2009)." http://www.drroyspencer.com... Con produced an excellent reference in the last round, http://www.geocraft.com.... In particular, the graph http://www.geocraft.com... shows the long term relationship between climate and CO2. In the long history, there is no relationship. Note that on the graph, the last 600,000 years is a collapsed to a point. The author of Con's reference describes the lack of a relationship relationship between CO2 and temperature: "Average global temperatures in the Early Carboniferous Period were hot- approximately 20� C (68� F). However, cooling during the Middle Carboniferous reduced average global temperatures to about 12� C (54� F). As shown on the chart below, this is comparable to the average global temperature on Earth today! ... Earth's atmosphere today contains about 380 ppm CO2 (0.038%). Compared to former geologic times, our present atmosphere, like the Late Carboniferous atmosphere, is CO2- impoverished! In the last 600 million years of Earth's history only the Carboniferous Period and our present age, the Quaternary Period, have witnessed CO2 levels less than 400 ppm. ... To the consternation of global warming proponents, the Late Ordovician Period was also an Ice Age while at the same time CO2 concentrations then were nearly 12 times higher than today-- 4400 ppm. According to greenhouse theory, Earth should have been exceedingly hot. Instead, global temperatures were no warmer than today." CO2 levels have been dropping for 600 million years, and temperature has been going up and down independent of the CO2. There was an ice age with 12 times the atmospheric CO2. Right now we are both CO2 deprived and temperature deprived relative to the history. It's worth noting where most of the carbon has gone. It is not mainly in fossil fuels. It is in the carbonates in limestone formed as the skeletons of sea creatures accumulate on the ocean floor. Pro's reference disproves the theory that the earth's temperature is very sensitive to CO2. There is no possible consistent rationalization for having an ice age with 12 times the CO2 if temperature depends strongly on CO2. In fact, the temperature on Venus proves *insensitivity* to CO2. The earth has 380 ppm of CO2. Venus has 960,000 ppm. The surface of Venus is 867 F, which about 737 K. Earth is 288 K. Venus is 0.7 of earth's distance to the sun. Since radiation falls as the square of the distance, if Venus had no increased greenhouse effect, it would be twice as hot as earth due to being closer to the sun; it would be 576 K. So having roughly 3500 times as much CO2 on Venus produces a rise of about 150 K = 150 C. If the effect were linear, doubling earth's CO2 would therefore produce a temperature rise of 150/3500 = 0.05 degrees or so. That is extremely insensitive. There is a factor of several thousand to be explained between what CO2 global warming theory predicts and the observation of Venus. The rest of Pro's references are the equivalent of blog posts in which non-scientists state their faith and proclaim victory. Pro is quite right that there are many factors affecting climate. Pro's burden is to prove that right now the most important factor is CO2. Global warming advocates are adamant that for the past few decades the Sun has been inactive, and so there was nothing to explain the rise in temperature from the 70's to late 90s except CO2. The test of the theory is whether it would predict the future. It has not. Temperatures have remained stable or decreased slightly for the past decade, despite CO2 rising and continued claims that CO2 is dominating climate. What CO2 theorists overlook is the activity of the solar magnetosphere, which tracks recent climate quite well. It's not CO2, it's the sun. The resolution is negated.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-change/1/
  • CON

    That refutes Pro's contention that because Venus is hot,...

    Climate change

    We have an unresolved disagreement about what contribution of CO2 to climate is "significant." CO2 theory advocates generally attribute all of climate change to CO2. They argue that there is no significant solar activity of any kind, that arctic ice could not have melted due to the Pacific Oscillation by which it has melted regularly in past times, and that hurricanes that used to run in cycles no longer do so. So for debate purposes, I'd say that if half of global warming were due to CO2, that would be significant. Pro suggested in round 2 that "significant" ought to be judged as enough to make enacting cap and trade worthwhile. By that standard, then if all of global warming is due to to CO2, it still wouldn't be significant. That's because Europe enacted cap and trade some time ago, and CO2 was not reduced at all as a consequence. The Holocene Optimum (3000-5000 years ago) was warmer than CO2 theorists claim it will get, and that was one of the most prosperous periods of human history. The polar bears survived as well. If Pro understood that no scientist opposed to CO2 theory maintained that global warming did not exist, then why did he put it as the first contention of his debate argument? Whether Pro believed the error of fact or not, it appears in Pro's argument, and is therefore relevant to the debate. Having the contention implies that those who deny the theory is completely out of touch with reality. Therefore is was relevant to refute the implication. I did the analysis of CO2 effects on Venus correctly. I acknowledged that 380 ppm (I should have said 368 ppm, which is more accurate.) of CO2 leads to our present temperature. I claimed that the sensitivity to CO2 above 380 would be small. Pro claimed that the sensitivity above present levels was high, and that Venus showed that sensitivity. To disprove Pro's assertion, I started with the assumption of what temperatures would be if both Earth and Venus had 380 ppm of CO2, compensating for Venus being closer to the Sun. The rise above that baseline that is actually observed is about 150 degrees and it is due to adding (960,000 - 380) ppm of CO2. That's 0.05 degree per extra 380 ppm. That refutes Pro's contention that because Venus is hot, it shows that temperature is sensitive to CO2. Note that the main greenhouse gas on earth is not CO2, it is water vapor. That allows CO2 proponents to tweak the computer models so that when CO2 fails to explain warming, an induced multiplier effect from water vapor is claimed. Pro responds by producing an unlabeled graph from an unknown source that shows that while overall there is low sensitivity to CO2, that early may be in a portion of the curve where there is still some sensitivity. The x-axis of the graph appear to be logarithmic, but it isn't stated, so we don't know for sure where the 380 point should be plotted. There is no clue as to whether the y-axis (temperature) is linear or logarithmic, so even if we knew the 380 point, we couldn't read of the temperature increase claimed for going to 760 ppm. What Pro's graph concedes is that CO2 effects are extremely non-linear. What Pro seems to disputes is the exact shape of the curve or where we are on the curve. The non-linearity of the CO2 response is calculated from physical principles by T.J. Nelson http://brneurosci.org... "What saturation tells us is that exponentially higher levels of CO2 would be needed to produce a linear increase in absorption, and hence temperature. This is basic physics.... doubling carbon dioxide would not double the amount of global warming. In fact, the effect of carbon dioxide is roughly logarithmic. Each time carbon dioxide (or some other greenhouse gas) is doubled, the increase in temperature is the same as the previous increase." Nelson continues by fitting the CO2 data from the 20th century to the known temperature rise. "This shows that doubling CO2 over its current values should increase the earth's temperature by about 1.85 degrees C. Doubling it again would raise the temperature another 1.85 degrees C. Since these numbers are based on actual measurements, not models, they include the effects of amplification, if we make the reasonable assumption that the same amplification mechanisms that occurred previously will also occur in a world that is two degrees warmer." Pro gives references, but they are a mess of blog-like conclusions from non-scientists and biased Wikipedia articles. Moreover, Pro frequently fails to claim what it is in the article that he claims to be supporting his claim. Other times I cannot find and match at all. His [12] is supposed to support a claim about Mercury, but I cannot find any reference to Mercury. He cited an article claiming to temperature for the last decade that showed no such data. Pro should reference articles written by credible scientists and quote or say what it is that supports his point. The second graph in http://wattsupwiththat.com... compares actual temperature with climate model prediction. Temperature have been level for the past decade, and "August 2008 was 3 C below June 1988, rather than projected 5 C above" Pro claims that there is a consensus of the "vast majority of scientists" that CO2 theory is correct. The main evidence he cites supporting that claim is the IPCC report. However, the IPCC itself is 70% non-scientists, a small elite determines the conclusions and edits the chapters to match their conclusions, and none of the contributors are allowed to vote on whether the report is valid. There is no evidence that if there is a consensus at all, that it is anything like a "vast majority." In addition to the hurricane expert who quite in protest, "Dr. Vincent Gray, a member of the IPCC's expert reviewers' panel asserts, 'There is no relationship between warming and [the] level of gases in the atmosphere.' " and "the [2001] report's lead author, atmospheric scientist Dr. John Christy, to rebuke media sensationalism and affirm, "The world is in much better shape than this doomsday scenario paints … the worst-case scenario [is] not going to happen." http://townhall.com... Recently, Christy identified the clear ideological beliefs of several authors and noted, "The tendency to succumb to group-think and the herd-instinct (now formally called the "informational cascade") is perhaps as tempting among scientists as any group ..." http://news.bbc.co.uk... Pro also cites the bogus study by Naomi Oreskes, a historian who searched scientific articles and claimed to find no articles contrary to CO2 theory. Oreskes only looked to for certain key phrases in certain journals, phrases basically related to political stance on the issue. Most scientific articles don't make any conclusions one way on the other about global warming, they just report on a study of some aspect of the science. It's easy to make a list of hundreds of scientific articles providing evidence contrary to CO2 theory, but none are included in Orestes study. Separately, I have compiled a lengthy critique of the Oreskes study, http://factspluslogic.com... Pro provided a reference that shows no relationship between CO2 and global warming over the past 600 million years. There was an ice age when CO2 levels were 12 time present. Pro responds that over history there were many things going on in climate. That's true, but it also shows that whatever the CO2 effect upon climate it has been insignificant relative to all those other causes. So for 600 million years, CO2 at levels a dozen times greater than now has been insignificant, but now we are supposed to believe it is dominant. Physical theory, past history, and current observation should CO2 has no significant climate effect.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Climate-change/1/
  • CON

    However, Pro's figure shows is that the model predictions...

    Anthropogenic Climate Change Exists

    CO2 has increased by 54% in past 17 years with no global warming, and CO2 theory cannot explain why NASA data, which I cited in [6], shows there has been no global warming for 17 years. Here is the graph from [6]: Pro argued that the average temperature for each decade has increased for each of the last three decades. That does not contract the fact of there being no global warming for 17 years. Suppose the temperature anomalies were scaled to be 1 in 1980, 2 in 1990, 3 in 2000, and 3 in 2010. Then the decade averages would be 1.5, 2.5, and 3 respectively, with a higher decade average despite no increase in the 2000s. The post-2010 data, which Pro did not consider, also shows no temperature increase. Temperatures rose sharply in the 1990s, so the average for the decade is about half way between the low at the start of the decade and the high at the end. There is no increase from the end of the 90s to the present, so saying the average for 2001 through 2010 is higher than the 90s only says that 90s were warmer at the end of the decade than the beginning. My primary reference for the claim that that IPCC models cannot explain the 17 year lack of global warming is Tinsdale's book “Climate Models Fail” [7]. Tinsdale provides a book length comparison of IPCC model results showing that what actually happened in climate was outside of the error band of model predictions. Tinsdale correctly references Von Storch, but I provided the wrong link, for which I apologize. The Von Storch paper cited by Tinsdale is online, but it can only be accessed with academia.edu membership [17. http://www.academia.edu...] Storch says “we find that the continued stagnation in global warming, from 1998 to 2012, is inconsistent with model predictions, even at the 2% confidence level.” Tinsdale also referenced the Mauritsen paper, which I linked in [7]. Like Von Storch, it shows that no reasonable tweak in the IPCC models can bring then into agreement with what actually happened. If CO2 dominated climate in the 20th century, then temperature should have risen monotonically through the century. If fact, there was a sharp decline at the beginning of the century and long gradual decline from about the 40s through the 60s. The general trend is upwards, but a general upward trend is what we would expect if sunspots dominated climate. I presented the sunspot graph previously, but here is a nicer rendition [18. http://www.paulmacrae.com...] Temperature is closely following sunspot activity, but not CO2, through 2000 The continuation, below, shows the pause in global warming post-2000 is consistent with the sunspot cycle having peaked. [19. http://wattsupwiththat.com...] The 17 year pause in global warming is causing great consternation among scientists who previously believed CO2 predominated. A news report by Voosen summarizes the widespread recognition among scientists that the models are not working, and that some major factors are missing, although among CO2 advocates, there is no agreement among CO2 theorists as to what is wrong. [20. http://www.eenews.net...] Pro's [5] shows that natural forcing of climate is only a minor part of the model predictions. However, Pro's figure shows is that the model predictions are completely wrong. Temperature was supposed to rise sharply after 2000, as the figure shows, but it did not. Models proved wrong cannot be relied upon for future predictions. As Voosen documents, in the IPCC models, sunspots are only modeled as having a direct irradiance effect, and that effect is negligible for the 20th century through the present. Something else is happening that gives sunspots a much greater influence on climate. Total sea ice is at a high Pro's initial contention was that vanishing Arctic sea ice proves that CO2 dominates climate. That's wrong on two counts. Correlation does not prove causation. Also, global warming is global, so it cannot be that Arctic ice measures warming but Antarctic ice does not. In the last round, Pro changed his position and argued that total ice is important and not sea ice. But total ice has been decreasing since the early 1800s, well before any claim of anthropogenic warming. [21. http://www.davidarchibald.info...] Total ice shrinking doesn't say anything about the cause. Pro claimed that melting land ice in Antarctica caused the increase in sea ice. That's impossible, because 99.9% of Antarctica has never gotten warm enough for ice to melt. There is a tiny peninsula that goes far enough north to occasionally have some melting, but that's negligible. Future CO2 levels are unknown Pro speculates that once there is any warming from anthropogenic CO2 it will take 10,000 years or even millions of years to correct. Pro agrees that warming causes the release of CO2 from the oceans. That does not address the issue of what future CO2 levels will be. It only says that if there is warming from some cause, that the CO2 levels in the atmosphere would be higher, after some delay, than if CO2 were not released from the ocean. We know it is not the case that warming causes a runaway of temperature due to the release of CO2 causing further warming. The data by Rasmussen [15] shows that CO2 goes up and down following temperature with a lag of a few hundred years, and that is true when either temperatures or CO2 levels are higher than present. It cannot matter whether there was one degree of warming due to sunspots or due to anthropogenic CO2, if any warming were to cause a CO2 induced runaway of temperature, it would have shown up in the temperature and CO2 variation of the past 250,000 years, and it has not happened. All of the IPCC models assume that CO2 levels in the atmosphere are dominated by a continuing exponential rise in anthropogenic CO2. But fossils fuels are unquestionable being exhausted, so it is impossible for CO2 levels from burning fossil fuels to continue to rise exponentially. The only question is when anthropogenic CO2 will fall below the assumed exponential increase. Prof. David Archibald, an expert on fossil fuel reserves claims, “At best, we might get to about 600 ppm ...” [21. p.91] As fossil fuels become scarce the price will rise, which will lead to the use of alternatives like nuclear power, which is present only marginally more expensive than fossil fuels. But let's suppose that the 600 ppm level is reached at the end of the century. That's a 56% increase in CO2. But the 54% increase in CO2 in the past 17 years produced no net increase in global temperature. Because scientists agree CO2 warming is logarithmic, the same percentage increase should produce the same amount of warming. The CO2 warming of the past 17 years was canceled by natural phenomena not in the climate models, so Pro's claim that the climate problem is solved is false. Is 600 ppm total CO2 is the correct number? I don't, and no one knows for sure. The upper limits and the future rates of CO2 production are major unknowns that make it impossible for Pro to meet his burden of proof. Climate prediction based upon solar activity The IPCC model projections of climate depend upon the CO2 effect on warming being multiliplied by a positive factor of two or more by secondary effects, such as the warming increasing water vapor in the atmosphere. Archibald [21. p 1] summarizes: The real world evidence says the opposite. In late 2007, Dr. Roy Spencer of the University of Alabama published a paper analyzing data from the Aqua satellite. Based on the response of tropical clouds, Dr. Spencer demonstrated that the feedback is negative. He calculates a 0.5°C warming for a doubling of the pre-industrial carbon dioxide level. Global warming, as caused by carbon dioxide, is real but it is also minuscule, and will be lost in the noise of the climate system.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Anthropogenic-Climate-Change-Exists/1/
  • CON

    Recycled paper is artificially supported by the...

    Recycling paper is a good way to fight climate change.

    Recycled paper is artificially supported by the government. When this source of paper competes with paper that comes from trees, it pushes the demand for tree farming down. To compensate, tree farmers have to lower prices. This lowers profits margins, and as such, firms leave the industry. Land that was once used to cultivate trees is now turned into farming something else or sold to real estate developers. Hence, there are less trees, all other things being equal, and if trees are important for regulating carbon dioxide, then recycling paper is bad for fighting climate change. If you have any thoughts or just like to argue for the sake of arguing, let me know.

    • https://www.debate.org/debates/Recycling-paper-is-a-good-way-to-fight-climate-change./1/